How strong is Spock -- in Vulcan terms?:

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Shat Happens, Apr 29, 2014.

  1. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

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    Compared to humans, we know he is super strong and super intelligent, OK. Also long-lived.

    But had Spock not left Vulcan for Starfleet, how would he compare among their species/society?
     
  2. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    I assume weaker than your average Vulcan but IIRC, Spocks dominant gene is Vulcan so his strength might be comparable.
     
  3. Metryq

    Metryq Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    TOS made a few references to Spock's Vulcan strength, such as the Captain's log in "This Side of Paradise" when Kirk is planning to tick off his first officer. I think the only displays were Spock pulping the video monitor in his quarters in "Amok Time" and the gang fight in sickbay in "Mirror, Mirror."

    However, I imagine Vulcans have a "work smarter, not harder" motto. The Vulcan neck pinch is one example of Kwai Chang Spock in action.

    And the famous British understatement is nothing compared to a Vulcan who can "exaggerate." ("Hours instead of days.") Although Spock probably learned that in self-defense after continually losing to Kirk at chess. And Fizzbin.
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Spock seems to get the worst of his human half, physiologically. He looks ancient at half the age his father looked middle-agedly handsome... He puts his aging on hold between TUC and his centennial, it seems, but he's a veritable mummy half a century before the age in which his father died, still fairly wrinkleless.

    It would seem likely for Spock to suffer from his geriatric looks if forced to return to the Vulcan society. This even if they don't actually diminish his physical or mental powers. He'd be twice damned for his inferior blood: human, and the son of a Bendii victim.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    That's real nice, Timo. :rolleyes: The other way to look at it is, Spock had a longer prime of life than anybody on his mother's side, he was gifted in math and had a remarkable memory.
     
  6. YARN

    YARN Fleet Captain

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    Vulcan strength. Trainers hate him!

    Seriously though, Vulcans often asked asked Spock, "Do you even engage in regimented rigorous weight training to develop superior muscle mass and physique, symbolic cultural sibling?
     
  7. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    Nimoy stayed in good condition during TOS, with a flat stomach and sufficient lean muscle mass to photograph well. If Roddenberry had cast a bodybuilder as Spock, the character might have become a background person, because otherwise he's just too much. Spock isn't supposed to be Kirk's bodyguard.

    http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x07hd/dayofthedovehd1006.jpg

    And that's not even to mention the fact that Nimoy co-created Spock as the first season went along.
     
  8. YARN

    YARN Fleet Captain

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    Bwha????????????????
     
  9. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    If Spock had fought Stonn on Vulcan, then would Spock have won?
    I know McCoy didn't think so but I'm not so sure.

    Stonn might have an advantage of being fully Vulcan but Spock had Starfleet training.
    Not that we ever saw Spock in the gym mind you.
     
  10. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There's just no way Spock would've won against Stonn, unless the only justification for it was that it's "in the script."
     
  11. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah. That's how Robin held his own against Kato on the '66 Batman. :)
     
  12. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    Sorry if I misread your post. Not sure what the deal is there.
     
  13. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If Spock tried to use "nice" as an argument in the matter at hand, his standing vs. full Vulcans, that would be counted as a further point against him, surely?

    No, it's not. Because "it" here is comparison with other Vulcans, and humans have nothing to do with that.

    Whether Spock was more gifted in math or had better memory than other Vulcans, we don't know. But in at least one timeline, he would have qualified for the Vulcan Science Academy, a feat for which his judges and possible mentors considered him exceptional. The impression we get is that even though they referred to his genetic handicap, the achievement was great in absolute terms as well - they weren't engaged in affirmative action on behalf of retards, but merely throwing a possibly unperceived insult at an entrant while honestly congratulating him (or whatever euphemism Vulcans use for congratulation so as not to sound emotional).

    Physical strength has already been covered to some degree. T'Pol in ENT fared worse than Spock in bodily fighting, despite supposedly also being trained. Then again, perhaps human training is superior, and as we know, T'Pol had received none of that. Or then there's greater sexual dimorphism in Vulcans than in humans.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  14. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    Kirk said that Spock had twice his strength. FWIW and IIRC, in DS9's "Take Me Out to the Holosuite", Vulcans in general are said to have three times human strength.
     
  15. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral In Memoriam

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    Adam West tells a little story about that scene in his book Back to the Batcave. Burt Ward had some martial arts training, but Bruce Lee psyched him out by acting angry and feinting blows toward Burt's face before shooting the sequence. Ward was scared, and West wondered if Lee had snapped. Then Bruce grinned and taunted, "Robin's a chicken!"
     
  16. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    I believe that story. Van Williams, star of The Green Hornet, said that Lee repeatedly injured stuntmen because he wouldn't pull his punches or miss on purpose. I get this from Williams' interview in Starlog magazine.

    Bruce Lee was a jerk.
     
  17. Metryq

    Metryq Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If not, then Kirk would have exposed Stonn as a Romulan who managed to escape the Neutral Zone encounter in "Balance of Terror."
     
  18. Vandervecken

    Vandervecken Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Why not? Although I need to draw on non-TOS to make the point: Picard was winning against at least one Nausicaan in "Tapestry," and the Nausicaan was obviously bigger and stronger. In fact, I'd be far more surprised if Stonn had won in this hypothetical encounter, because Spock can draw on his Starfleet fighting training--although whether that would have been available to him in his Pon Farry frame of mind, I don't know, but I tend to think his fighting reflexes would be just that, reflexes, and not need much thought to come into play.

    Plus I'm really not convinced that Spock is any less strong than a full-blooded Vulcan. When did Kirk specify "twice" a human's, for Spock's strength? I don't remember that. If he didn't, then we don't have to think that all traits are inherited in the same way--they're certainly not in human heritability. So Spock can have a shorter life span, but can also be in the same league, strengthwise, as full-blooded Vulcans.
     
  19. Armored Saint

    Armored Saint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Bones didn't refer to fully Vucalness or not, but to Spock's health due to his Pon farr condition. He didn't know anything about Pon farr except what he saw on Spock, so he underestimated his ability to fight.
     
  20. Alrik

    Alrik Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's why I think Stonn would have been in real trouble. Spock was in the middle of Pon Far. He had no control over his rage. This would put Stonn at a disadvantage, despite his strength. T'Pring knew this as well. That's why she chose Kirk and not Stonn. Now, no matter how things turned out, she couldn't lose.