How much stock do you put in the even/odd curse?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Lord Garth, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I first read about the even/odd curse in a Starlog Magazine the fall of 1994, not too long before Generations was released. I don't think it's a binary, "even good, odd bad!" and I didn't back then either. But I thought about it and realized I liked II, IV, and VI better than I, III, and V. Then I figured maybe there might be something to it.

    My uncle took me to see TFF in 1989. Before I became a fan. It didn't convert me. Then I saw TVH on video a year-and-a-half later. Which turned me into a fan. Then I couldn't wait to see TUC, which delivered everything I wanted to see.

    It was only after I saw TVH, and I was sold on the characters, that I could watch TFF from a different perspective and then it was like watching a whole other movie.

    So this is what I'm wondering: do you think the odd-numbered movies are more dependent on being familiar with the characters and already being a fan than the even-numbered ones? I think TMP, TSFS ,and TFF might each mean more if you're a fan. Same with Generations and Insurrection. Whereas with TWOK, TVH, TUC, and FC, you'll still get more out of them if you're a fan, but I wonder if maybe they're not as dependent on it?

    I saw all of the first six movies before I saw any of TOS. With TWOK, I figured "Star Trek's been around for a long time, Khan is one of the villians Kirk fought before, now he wants revenge!" Simple. With TVH, during the courtroom scene, all I thought was "Now I want to see the other ones!" Here's Earth, here's Starfleet, the Klingons are the Bad Guys and they want Kirk dead, it's as easy as 2+2. I got it as a kid. Both movies bring you up to speed immediately, so you know what you need to know, and then you just enjoy the rest of the story, where the characters are shown as being in their element even when they're out of their element. You get to know them as they are, even if you didn't know them.

    TMP is slow and doesn't seem to mean quite as much if you don't care as much about the Enterprise as Kirk does. And if you're not as excited to see the crew or don't have the same appreciation for the production values and the spectacle, I don't think you'll have the patience to watch the film and savor the experience. With TSFS, they're searching for Spock, but you have no idea why Spock means so much to them unless you're already familiar with him. In both cases, you know what's going on, but you're not going to feel the same attachment unless you're familiar with the ship or the characters. I think it could fall flatter to the "uninitiated".
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  2. cardinal biggles

    cardinal biggles ZARDU HASSELFRAU Premium Member

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    I believed in it pretty well from around the same time you're describing up until the release of Nemesis, which was incredibly underwhelming in a way that none of the odd-numbered films were.. Since then I've pretty much dismissed the curse as bunk — I've found plenty to appreciate about TMP thanks to the Director's Edition, and can even respect what Shatner was attempting to do with TFF. It carries even less weight when you factor in the reboot movies; I like all three, but ST09 (1 or 11) and Beyond (3 or 13) were the stronger entries in that series.
     
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  3. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nemesis breaks the curse. Just like Reagan broke the Curse of Tippecanoe. So it wouldn't apply from that point on, if there's any stock to be put into it at all. ;)

    I have to re-watch Into Darkness. I've only seen it once. There are certain things in there that, as a Discovery fan, I think I might get a different perspective out of than I did before.
     
  4. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not much.

    1) TMP - Bad
    2) TWOK - Good
    3) TSFS - Good
    4) TVH - Good
    5) TFF - Bad
    6) TUV - Good
    7) GEN - Bad
    8) FC - Good
    9) INS - Bad
    10) NEM - Bad
    11) ST09 - Good
    12) STID - Bad
    13) STB - Good
     
  5. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I like Treks 1, 3, and 5. So none. No stock at all.
     
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  6. Damian

    Damian Commodore Commodore

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    Up to Insurrection it seems to follow as far as popularity goes. TWOK, TVH, TUC, and FC were all generally more popular among the masses I think you could say. They are the go to movies for casual fans of the movies, more so than the others. Then from Nemesis on it's not quite as clear. Star Trek (2009) was the 11th film but was one of the most popular of the series.

    For me it was a film that made me a Trekkie as well. Though in my case it was, believe it or not, TMP. I had seen TSFS with my grandmother in the theater, the first Star Trek film I ever saw. But that was my pre-Trekkie time and I was about 10 at the time so I didn't get a lot out of it. My father, while not a Trekkie, loved TWOK and had a copy he made on video from an ABC broadcast and I saw that once or twice. Again, pre-Trekkie for me and I remember thinking it was ok but it didn't really grab me enough to make me a Trekkie.

    Then one day I saw TMP available for rent at a video store. I figured, what the hell, I saw 2 and 3, why don't I see the first film of the series. And I loved it. I was a bit confused in the sense that it didn't really tie into 2 and 3 at all (other than the characters, the sets and the ship which obviously were in the same universe). But it won me over. It is still my favorite Star Trek film to this day. (as an aside I am absolutely stoked that I will get to finally see it in a theater next month--I finally saw TWOK in the theater a few years back when they did the special edition Blu-Ray release leaving TMP as the only Trek film I never saw in a theater). TMP made me a Trekkie. After that I rewatched TWOK and TSFS and like you after TVH I saw those in a new light. It was like watching them with new eyes. And I remember it was in 1986 because it was just before TVH was released. Not only was I a new-born Trekkie but I was lucky enough I became a Trekkie a few months before a new film was coming out. And I enjoyed TVH a great deal as well.

    I also started watching the TV series around that time. I remember having to set my VCR because in my area we got WPIX out of NY on our cable system and it was the only channel that showed the original series where I lived....but at midnight. I would set my VCR to tape them and watch them the next day. Then about a year later TNG came out...Even though I was just a year and a half old Trekkie at that point I was already dubious about a Trek show without Kirk/Spock/McCoy. And the 1st season of TNG was definitely up and down but I stuck with it and eventually by the 2nd season was looking forward to each new episode...it had won me over and I came to love TNG almost as much as the original series....ditto for all the future shows and movies.

    One of my favorite birthday gifts was in 1986 when I got the first 3 movies on VHS for my birthday...and unlike today movies weren't cheap back then. I still remember TMP was 39.95 and I believe TWOK and TSFS were 29.95 each. So my parents probably spent 100.00 to get me all 3 films. And those were actually pretty cheap prices back in the day for a movie (I remember wanting to get the Planet of the Apes movies on VHS after I saw them on TV a year or two later and they were 79.95....EACH....so that was a no go).

    I also started getting episodes at various times on VHS. It's still amusing to think they were 14.95 PER EPISODE. And I eventually got all 79.
     
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  7. Armus

    Armus Commodore Commodore

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    0.0 stock. I like TMP and TSFS and even TFF. The even good, odd bad curse came about because the Nicholas Meyer films, where he either directed or wrote the film, were more popular than the others.
     
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  8. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I’m pretty sure the “curse” didn’t gain popularity until STV, and TMP was just retconned into that list later. As for STIII, there’s nothing about it that would lend credence that it’s an inherently bad film just because it’s odd-numbered.
     
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  9. ScottJ85

    ScottJ85 Commander Red Shirt

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    The main problem with STIII is that it's a perfectly decent movie following on from a legendary movie.
     
  10. Damian

    Damian Commodore Commodore

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    To be honest the first time I heard it was around the time Star Trek (2009) came out. I think they were asking the moviemakers if they were worried that there film would be an odd numbered film since they were less successful (taking out that Nemesis was an unsuccessful even numbered film).

    Through Insurrection it was an interesting pattern though. The even numbered films were more successful and generally more well regarded than the odd numbered ones up to that point. But I don't think of it as a curse sort of thing. Just a coincidence--one that was broken after Insurrection.
     
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  11. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    None whatsoever.
     
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  12. Steven P Bastien

    Steven P Bastien Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    There is a lot of stock in it. So much so that they should not even make the odd number movies. Just make the even number ones and they will have great reviews and will make lots of money.
     
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  13. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The truth has finally been revealed. The real reason why they switched to putting out a new Star Trek movie every four years instead of every two years. :devil:
     
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  14. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    This is where I point out that Galaxy Quest came out between Insurrection and Nemesis and screwed up the numbering.
     
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  15. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I like 1, 3, and 5 better than either 4 or 6.

    I think it holds up for the TNG films though. I'm a bigger fan of the 8th and 10th TNG film than 7th and 9th.

    So I've never really believed in it. But, my tastes are different than others.
     
  16. Armus

    Armus Commodore Commodore

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    I know some fans preferred Nemesis over Insurrection, 10 over 9, but Nemesis tanked at the box office, ended the TNG film franchise, forever smashing the odd even curse!
     
  17. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    Yeah, most of the time I tell people about the even/odd curse, it's to bring up that the theory still holds if there was a secret tenth Star Trek movie between INS and NEM.

    I mean, in as much as it does at all, TMP is my sentimental favorite, and I like all the movies to greater or lesser extents (though STID really gets under my skin because it starts so strong and then gets so bad in the end; the other lesser movies have a consistent level of quality, so you can at least settle in and calibrate yourself for the duration), though I will say the even numbered movies (including Galaxy Quest) tend to float to the top of the list.

    Of course, back before ST09, I'd have simply argued (and still do) that NEM is the second-best TNG film, and thus is "good" on points. Distant second, but, still.
     
  18. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Commodore Commodore

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    Back in the day, with 80s Original Kirk movies only, it would be trotted out on cue every time a new movie came out. On subsequent viewings, the rule doesn't always hold up as strongly.

    1) TMP - Bland but good
    2) TWOK - Good
    3) TSFS - Good (with bad moments)
    4) TVH - Good (with bad moments)
    5) TFF - Bad (with good moments)
    6) TUC - Good
    7) GEN - Good enough to see it three times in the theater but it has bad moments too
    8) FC - Bad (with good moments)
    9) INS - Bad (with good moments)
    10) NEM - Bad (but with a nice crash scene that was CGI, surprisingly)
    11) ST09 - Bad (does anyone even remember the plot, apart from a bunch of pointless callbacks, often out of context, and the setup for the shiny new timeline)
    12) STID - Good but with some incredibly BAAAAAAD moments (and not the feeble attempt at that pointless scream callback, which isn't clever and doesn't work for any type of audience - old or new)
    13) STB - Good (the franchise got back on track)
     
  19. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If you mean the Enterprise/Scimitar crash, there was a lot of practical model work used.
     
  20. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Commodore Commodore

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    I've told this story before, but here goes:

    I went to see TFF with two friends who, like me, were huge Trek fans, and a friend from work and his friend, neither of whom had ever seen Trek before. My Trek friends and I sat through the movie biting our tongues, lest we drive off the neophytes. As we left the theater, my work friend said "That was amazing! It's one of the best science fiction movies I've ever seen!", and his friend echoed the sentiment. My Trek friends and I looked at each other, and I said "Well, if you liked that one, you'll love the rest!" and left it at that.