How long was Spock dead?
- Thread starter CaptMoe
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It could have been that Spock's body was regenerated not too long after his coffin torpedo landed on the Genesis Planet and he underwent a gradual de-aging while in a comatose form. In such a case, he could have been alive again during the closing credits of Star Trek II, who knows...
The novelization puts three days between the events of TWOK and TSFS, but that's just its own interpretation and isn't binding. Really, the evidence is ambiguous. Given how quickly Spock's regeneration proceeded, it seems his "rebirth" couldn't have been too long before the film's events. Yet the Enterprise was a crippled ship and would've needed time to limp home. And it must've put into port or had a rendezvous somewhere to offload Carol, David, Saavik, and most of the cadet crew. And Saavik apparently graduated between films, since her turtleneck is cadet red in TWOK and command white in TSFS.
Personally I put about three weeks between the two films, but that's somewhat arbitrary.
Personally I put about three weeks between the two films, but that's somewhat arbitrary.
Yeah, I will go with a few weeks at the most. I think a rendezvous like we saw commonly in TNG with at lease one other ship. Possibly the Grissom, going in the opposite direction to inspect the newly formed planet, and another ship taking Carol elsewhere.
Do we know the actual reason that Bibi Besch wasn't written into III?
Do we know the actual reason that Bibi Besch wasn't written into III?
My thought was 2-3 weeks, 4 at the most. The E had to pick up the Reliant survivors; drop off David, Saavik; and the other trainees Kirk mentions is his log; and then limp back to Spacedock.
Then they are on Earth for a few days going through Morrow's inspection and plotting to steal the ship.
Then I imagine a few days back to Genesis, then off to Vulcan, then all the mystical stuff.
Then they are on Earth for a few days going through Morrow's inspection and plotting to steal the ship.
Then I imagine a few days back to Genesis, then off to Vulcan, then all the mystical stuff.
I always assumed a month or so passed between the end of KHAN and the end of SPOCK. The Enterprise had to have enough time to make a few needed repairs, limp back to Spacedock and be assigned for decomissioning. Saavik and David needed time to be transferred to the Grissom and get used to their new assignments. The Grissom needed at least a short time to explore and take scans of the Genesis planet. So I'm sure we're talking about a month or so. Give or take. The stardates for the end of KHAN(8141.6) and the start of SPOCK(8210.3) are also quite close...meaning that little time passed between the creation of the Genesis planet and its destruction. There are 180 stardate units between THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK and the beginning of THE VOYAGE HOME, and we learned in that film that Kirk and Co. had spent three months in exile on Vulcan. Only 69 units transpire between KHAN and SPOCK. A third of the other span. One-third of three months equals: TAH-DAH!!! One month.
Not hard science, I know. And we all know TOS-era stardates can be very inconsistent at times. But...still.
Not hard science, I know. And we all know TOS-era stardates can be very inconsistent at times. But...still.
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spock came back to life before the movie even starts. from when he landed till savvik and david find him i would say he was a few weeks old, maybe 3, then the Enterprise gets there 1 week later.
Actually it's worth noting that the Enterprise has considerably more battle damage at the start of TSFS than it had at the end of TWOK. The scars it sustained in TWOK (to the port side of the torpedo tubes and engineering section) are still there, but the FX artists added a few more for effect -- a whole bunch of burns on the starboard side, a few on the saucer, and a few on the nacelles that simply weren't there in TWOK. Maybe it's just poetic license, but maybe the Enterprise ran into trouble sometime between Spock's funeral and the ship's arrival at Spacedock.
I've read about suggestions that the Enterprise was involved in a couple of skirmishes with the Klingons as a result of the Genesis controversy. If this was the idea behind the extra damage it would tie in nicely with Kruge's motivations.
I don't mind TSFS, but it's clear that there are some things missing from the movie. It would have been nice to have an established time frame and a bit more about the reasons why the planet was destroying itself other than the unstable McGuffin shortcut in the form of Protomatter. It did it's job, but I can't help feeling short changed that Marcus and Saavik didn't have a longer discussion about the reasons why the planet was reacting the way it did and how exactly it tied in with Spock's rapid ageing.
The original plot outline (Return to Genesis) had some really good ideas that when incorporated, could have made the film considerably better. I think Kruge was a good villain, but I think that the Romulans as enemies would have been so much better.
The novelization (of ST II, IIRC?) mentions that USS Firenze is to rendezvous with Enterprise to pick up most of the injured cadets and get them home faster. Conveniently, it is a useful way to explain how Janice Rand is on board Enterprise for ST II (in that novelization) but has seemingly beaten the ship home in ST III, to watch it glide into Spacedock. It seems that Dr Chapel, also in the ST II novelization, accompanies the cadets, too. Interestingly, Chapel and Carol have quite a rapport in the ST III novelization. They had a chance to bond on the trip home.
(The Rand conundrum usually stirs up Timo, but I like the way it plays out above.)
Right. I think Chris Lloyd could have played the exact same character, just with different makeup. It certainly made the "Bird of Prey" make more sense, especially WRT Balance of Terror.
A few months, to fit in the old DC comics adventures where Saavik was the Enterprise's science officer and Sulu the XO.
STIII just flukishly looked like it took place immediately after II. Honest
STIII just flukishly looked like it took place immediately after II. Honest
...Although we never see any in ST3. Perhaps the Enterprise was told not to bother, as less damaged and faster ships would be assigned the job. Or then they did go to Ceti Alpha V, which apparently isn't all that far away, and found nobody alive. (We only have Chekov and Terrell's word that Khan left anybody alive to begin with, and since they were double agents at the time, this might have been a mere ruse to get Kirk off Khan's tail and away from the Genesis secret.)
It's of course possible they did pick up survivors, and then had a rendezvous that took those away from the Enterprise and gave them a fast ride to proper medical facilities - allowing Kirk and pals to have assorted adventures of arbitrary length afterwards, without a need to hurry to Earth for ST3.
Timo Saloniemi
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