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How I would have ended Harry Potter (possible spoilers)

I'd just like to point one thing out: where the hell is Ron?

You know, Harry's best friend? The one person he'd miss the most? That Ron?

Dead, of course. Harry had to kill him for betraying his friends to Voldemort which led to Hermione's capture. ;)
Ah, yes, of course. It's obvious: after Hermione realises that she actually loved Harry all along ever since they were tiny children and that Ron had been keeping her from being with her One True Perfect Platonic Love, and breaks up with him -- "I must have been delusional!" said Hermione (geddit?) -- Ron would naturally fly into one of his jealous rages. A teaspoon! A teaspoon I say!

And then of course he would reveal his secret long-held hatred for all Muggles and Muggle-borns, which isn't all sexy and snarky and wealthy like when Malfoy or Bellatrix do it but instead is the nasty brutal poverty-ridden Gryffindor type which would totally make him a spousal abuser if he and Hermione ever got married. And then he'd go join the Death Eaters and be welcomed with open arms. And so would Ginny, the filthy slut. (Can you believe she consecutively dated two other boys in high school before getting together with the guy she'd end up marrying? What a whore!)

NB: THIS IS WHAT (some) HARMONIANS ACTUALLY BELIEVE.
 
MNM, you clearly don't know anything about writing fiction. It is absolutely preposterous to shove Harry aside -- after all he has suffered and after all he has lost -- just to have a faceless, nameless dementor bring down Voldemort.
 
All that is required to cast a patronus is a memory that is happy for you and the required amount of magical power. Clearly Voldemort has the power needed, and he will have memories that are happy for him. Like I said, twisted memories of evil things, but he is a twisted and evil man, I am confident if he needed to he could cast a Patronus.
I agree with most of that Patronus stuff, but, I disagree Voldemort could Produce one. It's true, he can think back in the Day of his greatest Triumphs, but, he can't actually reproduce that joy from the memory to feed off. Kinda like a Drug addict who can't experience that first high again, hard as he might try. Harry doesn'r produce a Patronus, because he has happy memories, he produces one when he can relive those memory Feelings of Joy. A distinct difference, IMHO.
 
I'd just like to point one thing out: where the hell is Ron?

You know, Harry's best friend? The one person he'd miss the most? That Ron?

Dead, of course. Harry had to kill him for betraying his friends to Voldemort which led to Hermione's capture. ;)
Ah, yes, of course. It's obvious: after Hermione realises that she actually loved Harry all along ever since they were tiny children and that Ron had been keeping her from being with her One True Perfect Platonic Love, and breaks up with him -- "I must have been delusional!" said Hermione (geddit?) -- Ron would naturally fly into one of his jealous rages. A teaspoon! A teaspoon I say!

And then of course he would reveal his secret long-held hatred for all Muggles and Muggle-borns, which isn't all sexy and snarky and wealthy like when Malfoy or Bellatrix do it but instead is the nasty brutal poverty-ridden Gryffindor type which would totally make him a spousal abuser if he and Hermione ever got married. And then he'd go join the Death Eaters and be welcomed with open arms. And so would Ginny, the filthy slut. (Can you believe she consecutively dated two other boys in high school before getting together with the guy she'd end up marrying? What a whore!)

NB: THIS IS WHAT (some) HARMONIANS ACTUALLY BELIEVE.

A bit harsh to put it all out like that, but yeah... that's the mindset I was alluding too. ;)
 
Eh...I always envisioned Hermione as Molly (TNG), and of course Ginny is soooooo Lily. I woulda been creeped out if it was Harry/Hermione. In the Deathly Hallows Pt 1 dance scene, I didn't feel great, unbridled love, I felt a Brother picking his crushed sister up off the floor and making her day.

The Locket destruction scene in the movie made me feel uncomfortable, and I'm sure Harry wouldn't feel right if he had to watch it through Ron's eyes.
 
I'd just like to point one thing out: where the hell is Ron?

You know, Harry's best friend? The one person he'd miss the most? That Ron?

Rons doing something else imporrant. Who knows what. I dont claim to have plotted a whole book. Just one scene.

MNM, you clearly don't know anything about writing fiction. It is absolutely preposterous to shove Harry aside -- after all he has suffered and after all he has lost -- just to have a faceless, nameless dementor bring down Voldemort.

Actually the dementor brings down voldemort as a direct result of Harry's actions. its not like its some random event. And besides, I am not attempting to write fiction for the masses. This is just the scene I would have prefered and I as I said in my first post, I was bored enough to post it on here for consumption. You dont like it? ah well.

NB: THIS IS WHAT (some) HARMONIANS ACTUALLY BELIEVE.

Some sure. but then so what? some people take things to extremes. I am certain I could list a lot of exagerated things that people whos preffered ship is Harry/Ginny. Ron/Hermione. Neville/Luna etc.. think too, but what is the point in that? to make yourself feel better becuase other people think stupid things?

Ron has his flaws, insecure, prone to jealousy, bit of a muppet. But then its not like Harry isnt a muppet at times and has his own flaws.
 
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My biggest problem with the finale of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows was that it wasn't revolutionary enough. The fundamental origin of the prejudice and bigotry that drove the rise of both the autocratic Ministry of Magic and of Voldemort's regime was the Wizards' decision to keep their existence secret from the Muggle world. The defeat of Voldemort should have involved the exposure of the Wizarding world to the Muggle world, in order to create a greater sense of thematic unity with the idea of freedom triumphing over oppression.

I agree that it wasn't revolutionary enough. I've actually come around to enjoying the ending of DH as a subtly foreboding warning that all of the factors which led to the rise of Gridlewald and the two eras of Voldemort are still there, waiting to cycle around again. The final "all was well" is ironic. The fact that Harry's scar hasn't hurt in 19 years is so grossly inadequate a measure of reform - especially when we hear those around him still repeating the same old prejudices against Slytherins and muggles - that I can't take it at surface level. Harry got his happy ending because he triumphed over the immediate threat of Voldemort. He won the battle he was told he had to fight. The one on one, good guy vs bad guy showdown.

But he never really understood the wider mechanisms at play behind his fight with Voldemort. He didn't really grasp the social and political factors which led to the rise of a big bad. In fact, I think as Harry grew into his role as the hero of the wizarding world, he also became more and more tacitly accepting of the wizarding world's status quo.

At the end, I think the good guys have won the battle, but they've only glimpsed hints of the real war.

I'm sure that's not what JKR intended, but it's how I read the ending of HP, and I actually find it very satisfying as a hidden sting in the tail. Like the ending of Jane Eyre, or Sense and Sensibility.
 
SiorX -- you can't tell from the epilogue of Deathly Hallows how much the wizarding world and wizard culture has or has not changed or reformed in the past 19 years. All you know is that wizards are still hidden from Muggles -- nothing more. The focus of the epilogue is entirely on our characters and how they themselves turned out. The "all was well" is entirely genuine: Harry has fought the fight that was thrust upon him, has done his part and has since found peace.

(By the way -- "prejudice against Slytherins"? Really?)
 
The prejudice against the Slytherins at the start of the series made some sense: They were only ten years after the first Wizarding War and nearly all the aggressors of that War were Slytherins including their leader. There were bound to be bad feelings and scars leftover from that.

Plus, most of the current generation of Slytherins were the children of Death Eaters.

The problem with the series is that Rowling never bothered giving us any sympathetic Slytherins who are cunning, ambitious and still good people. Because there's nothing inherently evil about being cunning or ambitious (especially when you're 10 years old).
 
The prejudice against the Slytherins at the start of the series made some sense: They were only ten years after the first Wizarding War and nearly all the aggressors of that War were Slytherins including their leader. There were bound to be bad feelings and scars leftover from that.

Plus, most of the current generation of Slytherins were the children of Death Eaters.

The problem with the series is that Rowling never bothered giving us any sympathetic Slytherins who are cunning, ambitious and still good people. Because there's nothing inherently evil about being cunning or ambitious (especially when you're 10 years old).
SLughorn, Regulus, Head Master Black (And other Slytherin Head Masters), and Snape, all Slytherins
 
I agree that it wasn't revolutionary enough. I've actually come around to enjoying the ending of DH as a subtly foreboding warning that all of the factors which led to the rise of Gridlewald and the two eras of Voldemort are still there, waiting to cycle around again. The final "all was well" is ironic. The fact that Harry's scar hasn't hurt in 19 years is so grossly inadequate a measure of reform - especially when we hear those around him still repeating the same old prejudices against Slytherins and muggles - that I can't take it at surface level. Harry got his happy ending because he triumphed over the immediate threat of Voldemort. He won the battle he was told he had to fight. The one on one, good guy vs bad guy showdown.

But he never really understood the wider mechanisms at play behind his fight with Voldemort. He didn't really grasp the social and political factors which led to the rise of a big bad. In fact, I think as Harry grew into his role as the hero of the wizarding world, he also became more and more tacitly accepting of the wizarding world's status quo.

At the end, I think the good guys have won the battle, but they've only glimpsed hints of the real war.

I'm sure that's not what JKR intended, but it's how I read the ending of HP, and I actually find it very satisfying as a hidden sting in the tail. Like the ending of Jane Eyre, or Sense and Sensibility.

To take a cynical view for a moment: ultimately in this world, can we ever completely fix things in one fell swoop or is it more a matter of gradual change?

SLughorn, Regulus, Head Master Black (And other Slytherin Head Masters), and Snape, all Slytherins

And all from previous generations.
 
I agree that it wasn't revolutionary enough. I've actually come around to enjoying the ending of DH as a subtly foreboding warning that all of the factors which led to the rise of Gridlewald and the two eras of Voldemort are still there, waiting to cycle around again. The final "all was well" is ironic. The fact that Harry's scar hasn't hurt in 19 years is so grossly inadequate a measure of reform - especially when we hear those around him still repeating the same old prejudices against Slytherins and muggles - that I can't take it at surface level. Harry got his happy ending because he triumphed over the immediate threat of Voldemort. He won the battle he was told he had to fight. The one on one, good guy vs bad guy showdown.

But he never really understood the wider mechanisms at play behind his fight with Voldemort. He didn't really grasp the social and political factors which led to the rise of a big bad. In fact, I think as Harry grew into his role as the hero of the wizarding world, he also became more and more tacitly accepting of the wizarding world's status quo.

At the end, I think the good guys have won the battle, but they've only glimpsed hints of the real war.

I'm sure that's not what JKR intended, but it's how I read the ending of HP, and I actually find it very satisfying as a hidden sting in the tail. Like the ending of Jane Eyre, or Sense and Sensibility.

To take a cynical view for a moment: ultimately in this world, can we ever completely fix things in one fell swoop or is it more a matter of gradual change?

SLughorn, Regulus, Head Master Black (And other Slytherin Head Masters), and Snape, all Slytherins

And all from previous generations.
That doesn't make them non-sympathetic? Viktor comes from a School, where the entire School is Slytherin-like, and he's from Harry's generation.
 
My biggest problem with the finale of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows was that it wasn't revolutionary enough. The fundamental origin of the prejudice and bigotry that drove the rise of both the autocratic Ministry of Magic and of Voldemort's regime was the Wizards' decision to keep their existence secret from the Muggle world. The defeat of Voldemort should have involved the exposure of the Wizarding world to the Muggle world, in order to create a greater sense of thematic unity with the idea of freedom triumphing over oppression.

You are right. You are absolute right. I agree the epilogue should have had Harry taking his kids to a Kings Cross Station where the magical barrier no longer existed and where the mundane and magical were both accepted. But I think a lot of the stuff surrounding the problems with the Magical World were ignored by the writer. The stuff with the house elves, the goblins, the giants even the muggleborn are never addressed adequately.

But he never really understood the wider mechanisms at play behind his fight with Voldemort. He didn't really grasp the social and political factors which led to the rise of a big bad. In fact, I think as Harry grew into his role as the hero of the wizarding world, he also became more and more tacitly accepting of the wizarding world's status quo.
Harry at 37 was just as clueless as he was at 17. The fact that he named his kid after the two men that were leading him like a lamb to be slaughtered by Voldemort really says it all.
 
I've actually come around to enjoying the ending of DH as a subtly foreboding warning that all of the factors which led to the rise of Gridlewald and the two eras of Voldemort are still there, waiting to cycle around again. The final "all was well" is ironic....

I'm sure that's not what JKR intended
I'm positive that it wasn't. Remember that Dumby called Voldy Slytherin's last remaining descendant: a clear authorial indication that the fundamentally evil element of Wizarding Britain has been expunged, maybe even forever.
 
I think a lot of the stuff surrounding the problems with the Magical World were ignored by the writer. The stuff with the house elves, the goblins, the giants even the muggleborn are never addressed adequately.

This always bothered me, too.
The Giants aren't capable of acting civilized, they've gone off to live in the mountains and kill each other, problem solved.

House Elves were led by KReacher in the final assualt, surely tehy were rewarded with their freedom, it seems more likley to assume they would be freed, then wouldn't be, without further on it.

I don't think even the most liberal of Administrations would ever even consider going public with the Magical World, and it's not just up to the Minister of the Magic, it's also up to the Muggle Prime Minister (And his counterparts in other countries) and the one we met, was scared to death of the Magical World, why would you expect his predecessors would be any different?

The only problem with the Goblins is they are loyal to where the money lies, not much the Wizarding World can do about that, not like we don't have leaders in the Muggle world, just like that.

The statue in the Ministry of Magic, showing House Elves, etc as inferior to Wizards was destroyed symbolically, and never rebuilt.
 
The Giants aren't capable of acting civilized, they've gone off to live in the mountains and kill each other, problem solved.
What?

They were driven into the mountains and forced to kill each other because they were crammed together with little space and food.

House Elves were led by KReacher in the final assualt, surely tehy were rewarded with their freedom
You just made that up.

The only problem with the Goblins is they are loyal to where the money lies, not much the Wizarding World can do about that, not like we don't have leaders in the Muggle world, just like that.
They were also enslaved like the elves. That issue got neatly swept under the rug like everything else. Ditto for the Four Houses uniting or the foreign magicals helping or all the creatures uniting against the Death Eaters and their wizard supremacy.
 
SiorX -- you can't tell from the epilogue of Deathly Hallows how much the wizarding world and wizard culture has or has not changed or reformed in the past 19 years. All you know is that wizards are still hidden from Muggles -- nothing more. The focus of the epilogue is entirely on our characters and how they themselves turned out. The "all was well" is entirely genuine: Harry has fought the fight that was thrust upon him, has done his part and has since found peace.

No, you can't tell what's been going on beyond Harry's family, but the narrow focus in the epilogue is itself genuinely interesting. At least I find it so. Many of the loose ends in the HP books are about the wider problems which beset the magical world. Around books 4 and 5 the novels opened up and we learned about the discontent of other magical creatures - the goblins, the centaurs, the giants, even the dementors, and especially the house-elves.

There are other issues which we know about but which haven't been brought to any real resolution. Slytherin is a breeding ground for old bigotries (within a divisive house system which has ramifications beyond Hogwarts). There's widespread ignorance of the Muggle world (which proved a fertile breeding ground for misinformation and discrimination under VDM's regime). These problems contributed directly to Voldemort's rise to power. He wasn't just a lone baddie - his success was also the result of pre-existing systemic problems.

The epilogue, however, returns to the microcosm. The setting in King's Cross has personal meaning for Harry but also effectively shuts out the wider world. Back at the entry point to the magic world, we get Harry's happy ending. Any answers to wider questions are conspicuous by their absence. I'm sure the 'all was well' is genuine for Harry, but for the house-elves? The goblins? These are questions the book leaves entirely open. Hermione's abortive attempts with S.P.E.W. notwithstanding, the books really make no allusion to any efforts to change the system. I find that fascinating and a really powerful ambiguous ending, even though I'm sure from what JKR has said in interviews that that isn't what was intended.

The epilogue is full of allusions to Harry's first trip to Hogwarts, and the names and appearances of his kids harks back to earlier generations. There's a comforting sense of nostalgia and a return to innocence. This time 'round, Harry gets to do it right and send his family off to Hogwarts with the love, support, and preparation he never had. But doesn't all the repetition also raise questions about history repeating itself in less desirable ways? The problems Harry found at Hogwarts weren't all down to his own unhappy start, after all.

There are some tantalising hints in Ron's jokes. "Grandad Weasley would never forgive you if you married a pure-blood", "if you're not in Gryffindor, we'll disinherit you", his pointing out Scorpius Malfoy to Rose as a rival, and using magic against a muggle driving examiner - it's light-hearted, but every joke is a reminder of an ideology which contributed to the violence in the books. We saw what happened when such prejudices were taken to extremes. Can Ron joke now because all that's over and done with, or is his casual teasing an indication that the status quo remains largely unchanged and unchallenged?

I think the spectre of unresolved prejudices in the WW is lurking all around the edges of Harry's happy ending. YMMV.

(By the way -- "prejudice against Slytherins"? Really?)

Yes really. There has always been a chasm between Slytherins and everyone else, and it's not been resolved by the end of the books.

TBH, during Harry's time at school I think you'd be mad not to be automatically distrustful of Slytherins. There doesn't appear to be a good one in the batch. Slytherin house's reputation is well-earned, but it also precedes it and seems to create a self-fulfilling prophesy. Harry's been in the wizarding world less than a day in all before he's heard enough to have him begging the hat not to put him into Slytherin.

Fast forward nineteen years and automatic suspicion of Slytherin hasn't gone away. It's still something James can use to tease Albus. Harry's last whispered conversation with his son may offer private assurance that he won't be judged for being sorted into Slytherin, but he also emphasises that Albus can opt out of Slytherin in the sorting like Harry did. Definitely a mixed message.

To take a cynical view for a moment: ultimately in this world, can we ever completely fix things in one fell swoop or is it more a matter of gradual change?

It's a fair point. Honestly, I think if Rowling had given us a eutopian ending it wouldn't have been at all convincing. (Though I still would have preferred it if Harry's last pre-epilogue thought hadn't been 'I wonder whether my slave would bring me a sandwich in bed'.)
 
The Giants aren't capable of acting civilized, they've gone off to live in the mountains and kill each other, problem solved.
What?

They were driven into the mountains and forced to kill each other because they were crammed together with little space and food.
Yea, they were chased off because they couldn't behave

House Elves were led by KReacher in the final assualt, surely they were rewarded with their freedom
You just made that up.
HMMM, are you sure? I always theorized that Dobby would build an army of House Elves, and show up at the Final Battle, which obviously he couldn't do, but, I'm sure I recall Kreacher showing up, could I really have remembered my theorizing as part of the actual text, that didn't actually happen? I gotta check into this.

The only problem with the Goblins is they are loyal to where the money lies, not much the Wizarding World can do about that, not like we don't have leaders in the Muggle world, just like that.
They were also enslaved like the elves. That issue got neatly swept under the rug like everything else. Ditto for the Four Houses uniting or the foreign magicals helping or all the creatures uniting against the Death Eaters and their wizard supremacy.
They were only enslaved after the fall of the Ministry, they weren't enslaved under Fudge?
 
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