How I would film a Superman reboot.

[The Borgified Corpse]

I am on the outside looking in, and it seems everyone that gets involved with Superman just doesn't get the character as is. There is always some aspect of the mythos that they don't like or don't buy. Be it Clark, Lois, Daily Planet, the glasses, or something else.

I agree. I think the essence of Superman that too many in Hollywood don't get is the innate goodness of the character. I wouldn't say that Superman is perfect but I think he's a much more decent human being than Batman or Spider-Man. But it seems like Hollywood has forgotten how to make movies about good people struggling to do the right thing for the right reasons. Instead, they want to make him dark like Batman or angsty like Spider-Man or give him a tortured past like Wolverine.

If Bay can make two movies about alien robots that turn into cars, planes, and automobiles, then surely someone can make a Superman movie.

Just because Michael Bay is doing these things doesn't mean that we should be letting him.

Have him fight someone in his weight class with contemporary SFX effects.. someone like Doomsday, Darkseid etc.

I think this is a major element that the Superman movies have missed so far. The existing movies have a very limited imagination in terms of how to challenge Superman. They end up either falling back on Kryptonite (Superman: The Movie, Superman III, Superman Returns) or pitting him against someone with identical powers (General Zod in Superman II, his clone created from Kryptonite contaminated with tar in Superman III, Nuclear Man in Superman IV).

Also, I have a fear that WB will cave into fans' demands of an "all out slugfest" of a Superman movie and then those very fans that campaigned for that will complain that it lacks depth or substance. Just wait.

Superman is more than just throwing a punch.

That's quite possible. The same thing happened with the Hulk franchise. Hulk (2003) was too artsy. The Incredible Hulk was an action packed movie with no soul. If you could fuse the two, you'd have something ideal.

Similarly, the Superman movie franchise is plagued with imperfections. I dare say there has never been a perfect Superman movie.

And after Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, Michael Bay getting Superman would probably be one of the worse things that could happen. He's such a middle of the road, industralist hack like Brett Ratner or McG.

I don't mind Brett Ratner or McG. Rush Hour was fun. X-Men: The Last Stand was doomed long before Ratner was attached to it. And Terminator Salvation, while not the future war film I wanted, was OK. Certainly there's nothing on either of their resumes that stinks as bad as The Island, Pearl Harbor, or Transformers.

 

[Gaith]

I am on the outside looking in, and it seems everyone that gets involved with Superman just doesn't get the character as is. There is always some aspect of the mythos that they don't like or don't buy. Be it Clark, Lois, Daily Planet, the glasses, or something else.

Maybe they just haven't been sold properly. Modern newspapers, for example, is an extremely difficult business to get into, yet SR would have us believe it's filled with early-20s whippersnappers. Maybe if a Supes movie should show us Clark's struggle to get hired there, starting off as an unpaid intern and trying to hold a mundane, steady job to pay the bills while saving people, while finally landing a newbie staff position at the end. There's got to be the kind of connection to a real time and society that Spider-Man 2 and The Dark Knight did so well but that SR so blithely eschewed.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

By the time the next Superman movie comes out, I'm not sure there will be newspapers anymore.

 

[stueyross]

So the good ole days when there were no minorities in power and only servants, women were 2nd class citizens, and it was a lily white male world.

That sounds like a great idea!

Ok Lapis maybe it is hard to make a good Superman movie.

Dear sweet chocolate tap dancing christ on a bicycle.

Does anyone ever say anything that you don't hear and think "hmmmm how can I twist that so its a racial comment?"

 

[Kegg]

Not quite. I'm fine with it as-is, I'd just like to shake it up or whatnot. I feel the whole Superman being-an-alien thing is something you'd want to address in a period piece. People have issues with non-whites coming to their country, what about people from other planets? Well, that 'otherness' doesn't quite come through when he looks like Clark Gable or Cary Grant, but if he's black it becomes palpably, even uncomfortably, obvious.

*shrug*

Yes and the audience would flee just like they did with S:R.

The Dark Knight made tons of money, suggesting that making 'serious' movies about comic book heroes is financially viable. You just clearly have to do it in such a way it catches the audience's attention - I liked Returns fine, but I felt it was very static with the character relationships and not as epic in scope as this Batman film.

The important bit is probably more the idea that Superman beats the crap out of Nazis. That's something people would like, right?

The Germans and Jewish people would. Everyone else would just yawn.

Hey, Inglourious Basterds made money! Woo! Come on, Superman laying the beat-down on Nazis, marching through wartorn Europe and shrugging off explosions on the chest in an effort to save the world from itself. What more do I need, Megan Fox?

 

[QuasarVM]

So the good ole days when there were no minorities in power and only servants, women were 2nd class citizens, and it was a lily white male world.

That sounds like a great idea!

Ok Lapis maybe it is hard to make a good Superman movie.

Dear sweet chocolate tap dancing christ on a bicycle.

Does anyone ever say anything that you don't hear and think "hmmmm how can I twist that so its a racial comment?"

Amen. I am SO SO SICK of that shit! It's such empty and meaningless rhetoric and unfortunately, it's the blacks who have made it that way. It really comes off as a cheap attention getting ploy or a tool to achieve something they can't do based on their skills, knowledge or character.

The word "racism" has been devalued even more than the dollar and the peso.

Apparently these people have never read the story "The Boy Who Cried Wolf". They use the word racism so much that when it actually DOES appear then nobody believes it because the word was wasted on so many occasions where it wasn't called for.

Whitey is always "keepin the man down"...and Whitey can NEVER be let up off the mat for something that took place over 100 years ago (after slaves were sold to slave traders -- black AND white by tribes in Africa. Some of those tribes CONTINUE to hold slaves to this day. Yes, Virginia, slavery STILL exists where? On the continent of Africa. Where does it NO LONGER exist? The USA and other Western nations.) and not even to the people making the claims of racism.

I know it's hard to believe, but most of us "whiteys" are just trying to work hard, keep a roof over our heads and our family's heads and just trying to get through life the best we can.

Offending blacks or holding blacks down or looking down our nose at them...or a longing to those "glorious" days of slavery or whatever...doesn't even cross most of our minds. I would venture to say, only the mentally ill (whatever the race) would harbor such thoughts and intent. In fact, whitey helped elect the Barack Obama to the White House...but even THAT isn't good enough or proof enough that racism (by and large) is an overexaggeration.

And I would say MOST of us (99% of us; me included!) don't CARE what color you are. Your deeds and your CHARACTER define you. Not your skin color.

Frankly, nobody gives a shit! Most of all -- I don't give a shit.

And ya know...I truly believe one of the best ways to continue to build a color-blind world is to STOP TALKING ABOUT RACE! Stop blaming your failures and your successes on skin color.

Honestly, I believe most people -- most SANE people -- don't care about that. They look at your talents, your heart...your character.

End of rant. Flame away or report me or ban me. That's my opinion and what I firmly believe.

I don't really care what anyone thinks.

 

[Shazam!]

Oh and I have a Wonder Woman done too, ready to go. Same thing applies for that.

Set against the back drop of WWII, right? RIGHT?

 

[Shazam!]

So the good ole days when there were no minorities in power and only servants, women were 2nd class citizens, and it was a lily white male world.

THE DREAM

 

[SalvorHardin]

Hey, Twilight made money too right ? And vampires are popular.

Let's have Superman fight vampires that sparkle red sunlight or cryptonite radiation.

 

[Gaith]

Could we not turn this into a discussion on racial politics, please? If you'd like to discuss a black Superman, terrific; that's germane to the OP. But for calling sides on the culture wars, there's The Neutral Zone.

That said, it was unfair of the poster to suggest that a Supes movie set in the 30s/40s would inevitably glorify the era. Rather than leading with sarcasm, s/he could have suggested that a key character represent the oppressed minorities of the day.

 

[QuasarVM]

Could we not turn this into a discussion on racial politics, please? If you'd like to discuss a black Superman, terrific; that's germane to the OP. But for calling sides on the culture wars, there's The Neutral Zone.

That said, it was unfair of the poster to suggest that a Supes movie set in the 30s/40s would inevitably glorify the era. Rather than leading with sarcasm, s/he could have suggested that a key character represent the oppressed minorities of the day.

Yeah, that's how the racial thing got started...the implication that some of us wanted to douse our Superman films in some kind of "KKK wet dream" setting.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I want some action in the next Superman movie. Exploring emotional depth and character movitations is all well and good but you don't want to put your audience to sleep. I think for the most part the Spider-Man trilogy achieved the balance of story and character with action. Superman needs something to do other than expose whatever scheme Luthor is up to. He does have other villans as has been debated in other threads. I would have to loved to seen Brainiac in Man of Steel. One of the awful drafts for Superman Reborn or whatever it was going to be called had Brainiac and Parasite as villans. General Zod and Lex Luthor happen to be the most recognizable big bads Superman has unfortunately.

My Superman movie would be along the lines of what Mark Millar wanted to do...a nine movie epic. Although mine would be a three picture deal. A straight up reboot with a short five or ten minute origin prolouge before jumping into the rest of the movie which would be about Superman's first appearence in Metropolis and his fight against the corrupt businessmen Lex Luthor. The second movie would deal more with his past and Krypton as Brainiac looks to remake Earth into New Krypton and prepare the way for General Zod. The final movie would be Superman Vs Zod as he finally is about to defeat his father's enemy. There would be lots of Clark and Lois development and build up, etc.

 

[Galactus]

So the good ole days when there were no minorities in power and only servants, women were 2nd class citizens, and it was a lily white male world.

That sounds like a great idea!

Ok Lapis maybe it is hard to make a good Superman movie.

Dear sweet chocolate tap dancing christ on a bicycle.

Does anyone ever say anything that you don't hear and think "hmmmm how can I twist that so its a racial comment?"

Amen. I am SO SO SICK of that shit! It's such empty and meaningless rhetoric and unfortunately, it's the blacks who have made it that way. It really comes off as a cheap attention getting ploy or a tool to achieve something they can't do based on their skills, knowledge or character.

The word "racism" has been devalued even more than the dollar and the peso.

Apparently these people have never read the story "The Boy Who Cried Wolf". They use the word racism so much that when it actually DOES appear then nobody believes it because the word was wasted on so many occasions where it wasn't called for.

Whitey is always "keepin the man down"...and Whitey can NEVER be let up off the mat for something that took place over 100 years ago (after slaves were sold to slave traders -- black AND white by tribes in Africa. Some of those tribes CONTINUE to hold slaves to this day. Yes, Virginia, slavery STILL exists where? On the continent of Africa. Where does it NO LONGER exist? The USA and other Western nations.) and not even to the people making the claims of racism.

I know it's hard to believe, but most of us "whiteys" are just trying to work hard, keep a roof over our heads and our family's heads and just trying to get through life the best we can.

Offending blacks or holding blacks down or looking down our nose at them...or a longing to those "glorious" days of slavery or whatever...doesn't even cross most of our minds. I would venture to say, only the mentally ill (whatever the race) would harbor such thoughts and intent. In fact, whitey helped elect the Barack Obama to the White House...but even THAT isn't good enough or proof enough that racism (by and large) is an overexaggeration.

And I would say MOST of us (99% of us; me included!) don't CARE what color you are. Your deeds and your CHARACTER define you. Not your skin color.

Frankly, nobody gives a shit! Most of all -- I don't give a shit.

And ya know...I truly believe one of the best ways to continue to build a color-blind world is to STOP TALKING ABOUT RACE! Stop blaming your failures and your successes on skin color.

Honestly, I believe most people -- most SANE people -- don't care about that. They look at your talents, your heart...your character.

End of rant. Flame away or report me or ban me. That's my opinion and what I firmly believe.

I don't really care what anyone thinks.

I had a thread in the TNZ if you would like to continue this discussion. I am sure there are many that you can jump right into.

 

[Shazam!]

I keep hearing about TNZ as a sub-forum here, but I can never spot it... where is it?

 

[Nick Ryder]

Well I certainly know ONE thing the next movie doesn't need, an origin story. Just do like the Spider-Man movies have done and just show scenes from the origin in "comic" form during the opening credits and start out with a bang. Make the movie exciting, have him actually fight crime, fight super powered baddies that just crop up. Have him rescue people.
Basically have him DO SOMETHING! Then lead it into him changing into his Civvies and having an encounter with Lois. I think Lois works best when she's kinda bitchy and driven at the Planet. Perry works best as a hardass. Jimmy works best as a bright eyed kid with a camera. After a short establishing scene then have it cut to somewhere else, with the villan of the piece doing something dastardly. I know a lot of fans have Brainiac on the brain, but I think I would rather use some of the other rogues gallery. Maybe someone like Toyman, Parasite and Metallo joining up for what appears to be a revenge riff against Superman, but its really being pushed along by a more sinister being in the background. I keep thinking it would be fuckin' awesome to see the New Gods on the big screen, but let's just get one movie in the can first. Keep the SFX down to basics. Tell a good story, have superman kick some ass and you'll have "the best superman film EVER! Sorry Chris..." and then you can get into the funky SFX shit that everyone wants to see, because at least the franchise will have made money. Look at Batman Begins vs Dark Knight.

 

[Argus Skyhawk]

I keep hearing about TNZ as a sub-forum here, but I can never spot it... where is it?

The Neutral Zone is a hidden forum. My understanding is that you can only get to it if you request access to it from a moderator, and your request is granted. I haven't been there myself since it became hidden a few years ago, and I don't miss it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

A slugfest would be good. Maybe not the whole movie, but at least a good chunk.

Villains: Brainiac for the brains and Metallo for the brawn. Maybe Luthor as a brief cameo in a opening sequence. (Doing something worthy of the character, no real estate schemes)

Plot: Brainiac wants to destroy the Earth and enslave its citizens.

 

[The Comedian]

Have there been "what if" comics of Superman? Like what if he had crashed and been raised in Afghanistan or North Korea?

I also highly recommend "Speeding Bullets", where infant Superman is found by Thomas and Martha Wayne.

And it is the young Kal-El who is in that alley when his parents are murdered.

So you have a guy with Batman's anger and Superman's powers.

 

[Timby]

Going back one more time (despite my knowing better) to the Superman Returns thing and the "lack of action" complaint -- Ghostbusters, ostensibly a film about a group of guys fighting ghosts, has precisely two scenes in which the proton packs are actually used. Why? Because it's a movie about the characters.

Superman Returns operates in much the same way, although there is action interspersed throughout the film: The shuttle disaster, the bank robbery, Parker Posey's car going nuts, New Krypton causing disaster throughout the city and the ultimate finale of Superman removing that structure and hurling it from Earth. People expected Superman being Superman in American Dad-style. Singer made a character study, much as he has with all his previous movies, and made Superman an actual character, instead of an archetype. I really can't find fault with that idea. Singer's only real mistake with Returns was once again using John Ottman as the composer, as he once again proved that he is unable to create compelling music when he's not adapting someone else's prior work.

 

[S. Gomez]

Not too long ago I was reading a recreation of an unpublished Siegel story from 1940 that would have introduced kryptonite into the comics--and also ended with Lois discovering Clark is Superman. It's called "The K-Metal From Krypton" and you can find it here.

Something struck me on one of the pages. Superman, weakened by exposure to the substance later known as kryptonite, stumbles out onto the busy street. And the people see him. And the people are scared. Really, they're scared, they run away. It really intrigued me and made me wonder what a version of the story would be like if, instead of becoming this symbol of hope...everyone's afraid of him and what he can do. I found a similar moment in Action Comics #1, when Lois first lays eyes on him. It's a great shot, with one of her dress straps slipping off, cringing away in terror. Superman sort of leans over her and says, like an angel, "Don't be afraid."

On another note, I've also been listening to the old radio show with Bud Collyer. Awesome stuff, by the way, though I'm still in the early episodes. But one thing I found very interesting: Superman works to not only hide the fact that he's Clark Kent, but also to hide the fact that he even exists at all. Occasionally someone will say, "I thought I saw a guy in blue tights and a red cape" and the others will say, "Quit talking crazy." When he saves people they manage to be unconscious. Of the two crooks who have had actual contact with him, one dies by the story's end and the other is blackmailed into silence by Superman himself.

Those were two elements of the early mythos that somehow got forgotten along the way, and I think it would be interesting to try and resurrect them.