How Does Starfleet Justify an All-Vulcan Crew?

[T'Girl]

[For me it would make sense for aliens to be grouped by preferred habitat, but not just by race.

Crews might also be sorted by culture and psychology. Small differences would be okay, but major differences could lead to some members of the crew increasingly feeling isolated on their ships.

Given the long term missions, ships need to be communities.

 

[Sans]

Could it be that humans are the "rabbits" of the galaxy? That would be why most of the ships have human crews? There are more of us?

As for the Vulcan only ship, I believe it was a registered Starfleet vessel used by the Vulcan Science Council/Academy. The same way The Raven was a Starfleet vessel used by Seven's family.

It could be that that while in their home systems, ships could use any name/registry. But if/when they are in intergalactic (sounds to SWish) space, they must have a Starfleet registry.

 

[BigJake]

I don't understand all the elaborate rationalizations. What's wrong with GR's initial notion?---Starfleet assigns predominantly one species to given ships.

Near as I can tell, the idea of a multi-planet Federation didn't appear until some ways into the series, and the Enterprise and its sister ships were working for Earth (Earth and Starfleet being the same thing). Even after the idea of the UFP appears, Starfleet in TOS is "progressive" about inter-species relations in essentially the same way that American liberals of the day saw themselves as being "progressive" about race and internationalism. You could have the occasional alien around, but Earth predominates and is still talked about and treated as by far the first among equals.

Against that backdrop, the Vulcan-only ship is curious and interesting. I guess Justman seems to have thought of Vulcan as having become basically a part of the community of otherwise-human nations making up Starfleet -- so for instance most of the ships had American names, some had British names, there was a Russian and a Japanese ship, and there was to be a Vulcan ship, implying that Vulcan had become a core part of the Federation in a way other planets hadn't.

 

[Timo]

What's wrong is that if starships are segregated it would contradict all other progressive precedents established in the show.

But if somebody challenges Starfleet for the segregation, then that person is the disgusting old racist here - the one who thinks that race matters. There's nothing progressive about, say, hating heterosexual couples for not being progressively gay or progressively going for group sex or minors or whatever. And, by the very same token, nothing progressive about seeing fault in all-Vulcan crews.

That from the viewpoint of today. In terms of the sixties and audience expectations, Kirk's ship was the paragon of integration - but would that make any impact in a Starfleet that's all integrated? An all-Vulcan ship is welcome contrast to Kirk's and makes people go all gosh & wow about how progressive humans are...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Redfern]

...environmental considerations is what I'll always considered the justification...if you were Vulcan, and had to put up with the chilly, thick air of Earth.

"The Deadly Years" considered this aspect. Spock, suffering the hyperaging that also plagued Kirk and the other landing party members, mentioned he raised the temperature of his cabin to some number well over 100 degrees. A very geriatric looking McCoy quipped he would NOT be making any "house calls" for the Vulcan.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[YARN]

I always just imagined that the Vulcan Science Academy had their own special interests and negotiated the use of Federation ships for these projects.

 

[alpha_leonis]

My big question actually revolves more around the transition between the series and the movies. During the entire run of TOS, Spock was the only non-human crew member we ever saw (not counting the second Vulcan we saw on the mirror-Enterprise -- it's unknown whether that other Vulcan also existed on the "regular" ship.

Then we get to TMP, which is supposed to take place only a couple of years after TOS: the rec-dec scene shows us alien crewmembers all over the place (plus two alien bridge officers to boot!)

Fast forward to TWOK, and we're back to all humans again (Spock and Saavik being the notable exceptions.) But by TSFS, there's one alien crewman in the mix again (tall bald guy in the background during Admiral Morrow's visit. Granted, this guy might have been one of the refugees from Reliant. There was also a Deltan on the Excelsior bridge.)

No other Enterprise aliens were seen in TVH (just a brief Enterprise scene in that movie), let alone TFF. We have to wait until TUC before alien officers appear again (crewman Dax comes to mind.)

 

[Cyke101]

Unbridled Pon Farr?

Vulcan captain's TV show intro: Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the USS Intrepid. Our seven year mission...

Kirk: Why seven years?

Spock: You do NOT want to know.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

What proof is there that Vulcan ships are meant to be racially exclusive AND that they are not meant to represent the best of the planet Vulcan--territorial, not unlike the Yorkshire Regiment? Or are we just assuming that it's all racial?

 

[BigJake]

My big question actually revolves more around the transition between the series and the movies.

Spock was the only crewmember alien that TOS had either the budget or the guts for (even getting him in was a hard sell to the network, or at least so the common story goes). TWOK was mostly faithful to the feel of TOS, though I think the in-universe explanation is that Enterprise was in the process of training a bunch of cadets from Earth.

In these and other shows and movies the tacit implication is that there could well be other aliens around that we don't see, since we only ever see a fraction of the crew onscreen; but the reason for the on-screen mix is fundamentally that the Star Trek format is about the adventures of humans in space, with occasional alien friend to provide some colour and a splash of external perspective. (That's still true of TNG Trek, too.)

TMP was trying to be much more consciously "science-fictiony" by contrast. Hence the difference.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

What's wrong is that if starships are segregated it would contradict all other progressive precedents established in the show.

But if somebody challenges Starfleet for the segregation, then that person is the disgusting old racist here - the one who thinks that race matters. There's nothing progressive about, say, hating heterosexual couples for not being progressively gay or progressively going for group sex or minors or whatever. And, by the very same token, nothing progressive about seeing fault in all-Vulcan crews.

No, but if there is a trend on ships of grouping people of the same race that is very statistically unlikely (p < .001) given random selection, then you couldn't reasonably say race was not taken into consideration in populating the ships.

There is a big difference between hating heterosexuals for not being gay and denying a Bolian an earned promotion because "Oh, that's not a Bolian ship, that's a human ship." You might as well have separate human and alien drinking fountains.

 

[Nerys Myk]

In TOS, half ( if not more) of the aliens we meet are indistinguishable from humans. So who can say how many crewmen we see in the background are human? Then there is Garth, one of Starfleet's greatest captains. Was he human?

GARTH: I am Lord Garth, formerly of Izar, and I lead the future masters of the universe.
KIRK: I'm sorry, Lord Garth.
GARTH: You Earth people are a stiff necked lot, aren't you?

 

[BigJake]

I thought Izar was a human colony. But I don't know where I got that.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I thought Izar was a human colony. But I don't know where I got that.

They never say it was. Usually they mention that.

 

[T'Girl]

Near as I can tell, the idea of a multi-planet Federation didn't appear until some ways into the series ...

The first time it was clearly depicted was Journey to Babel. The Immunity Syndrome was made four episodes later, maybe the intent that each of the then unknown number of Federation Members had their own fleet of starships.

What proof is there that Vulcan ships are meant to be racially exclusive AND that they are not meant to represent the best of the planet Vulcan--

Proof? How about DS9's Take Me Out to the Holodeck?

 

[BigJake]

I thought Izar was a human colony. But I don't know where I got that.

They never say it was. Usually they mention that.

I guess I just assumed it because they never specify Garth is alien, and that's something they'd normally mention too.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I thought Izar was a human colony. But I don't know where I got that.

They never say it was. Usually they mention that.

I guess I just assumed it because they never specify Garth is alien, and that's something they'd normally mention too.

Is he an alien if his species is a member of the Federation? "Alien" tends to be reserved for new or unallied races.

 

[BigJake]

They never say it was. Usually they mention that.

I guess I just assumed it because they never specify Garth is alien, and that's something they'd normally mention too.

Is he an alien if his species is a member of the Federation? "Alien" tends to be reserved for new or unallied races.

Tellarites, Andorians and Vulcans are all aliens.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I guess I just assumed it because they never specify Garth is alien, and that's something they'd normally mention too.

Is he an alien if his species is a member of the Federation? "Alien" tends to be reserved for new or unallied races.

Tellarites, Andorians and Vulcans are all aliens.

Well to humans, they might be. But not to the Federation. In the UFP they're just fellow citizens.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

[For me it would make sense for aliens to be grouped by preferred habitat, but not just by race.

Crews might also be sorted by culture and psychology. Small differences would be okay, but major differences could lead to some members of the crew increasingly feeling isolated on their ships.

Given the long term missions, ships need to be communities.

That's an interesting point, but it could also lead to some problematic ways of thinking. Like, a lot of employers don't just look at your merit, they look at the 'Cultural fit'. Now, most of the people I get along with the best are people who are nerdy and effete, so statistically, that causes most of my friends to be white or Asian. So if I were to staff a position not just based on merit but also based on who I think I might get along with culturally, I'd be excluding anybody from a cultural background that didn't promote those personality traits.

Two years ago there was a job I was applying to that I know I nailed the technical aspects (I know for a fact I hold the all time record for their coding problem) and I'm pretty sure the only reason I didn't get was that one of the interviewers didn't think I was a 'Cultural fit'.

There's a line between putting people together on a ship you think might get along together, and making those assumptions about how they will get along together based on their background, and denying people opportunities because of their background.

We see mostly humans on ships because it's cheaper than putting a lot of aliens around, but I can't imagine the Starfleet I know exercises these kinds of soft prejudices.