How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from Voy?

[The Rock]

Do you think he would've let Starfleet Command handle the situation? Or do you think he would've made the same situation that Janeway did (splitting apart Tuvix to bring back Tuvok and Neelix)?

And to go further, what would the other Star Trek captains have done?

 

[BillJ]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

Tuvix would've had access to the Federation's legal infrastructure. So, much like Data, it would have been out of Picard's hands.

But I like to think Picard would've respected Tuvix right to exist.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

"Starfleet was founded to seek out new life... well, there it sits!"

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or of the one."

Which does Picard believe holds more weight? I personally think he would decide to let Tuvix live, based on the idea that "What's done is done" and that Tuvix had no choice in the matter. In my opinion, Picard would view killing Tuvix as an unacceptable solution.

Although, if it had happened on TNG, it wouldn't have been Tuvok and Neelix. Perhaps Reg and Worf? And he'd call himself Rorf. And in the end, Picard would allow him to live, but it wouldn't matter because Rorf would decide to sacrifice himself to save Reg and Worf. Rorf's last words would be, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or of the one. Goodbye."

 

[Gary7]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

"Starfleet was founded to seek out new life... well, there it sits!"

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or of the one."

Which does Picard believe holds more weight? I personally think he would decide to let Tuvix live, based on the idea that "What's done is done" and that Tuvix had no choice in the matter. In my opinion, Picard would view killing Tuvix as an unacceptable solution.

Although, if it had happened on TNG, it wouldn't have been Tuvok and Neelix. Perhaps Reg and Worf? And he'd call himself Rorf. And in the end, Picard would allow him to live, but it wouldn't matter because Rorf would decide to sacrifice himself to save Reg and Worf. Rorf's last words would be, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or of the one. Goodbye."

Very well said, Tiberius. I wholeheartedly agree. Picard wouldn't have been all sentimental and lamenting the disappearance of Tuvok and Neelix. He would have recognized an unfortunate accident but also the birth of a being that has the inalienable right to make the decision of how it would handle it's own life.

 

[sonak]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

Picard was a hard-core defender of individual rights and liberties over the needs of a larger group.("the drumhead," "I Borg," "the measure of a man," etc.) It would be consistent with his ethical perspective to defend Tuvix's rights.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

Picard was a hard-core defender of individual rights and liberties over the needs of a larger group.

But would not that have lead Picard to assist in the releasing of both Tuvok and Neelix from the "larger group" that is Tuvix? While you can argue that Tuvix is a innocent party, the same can be said for both Tuvok and Neelix, neither was asked to donate their total being in order to produce Tuvix.

This was one of those lovely ethical values stories that Star Trek should have made many more of, there is no one perfect answer to the dilemma. That said, I believe Picard would have released Tuvok and Neelix, even even though it meant Tuvix's destruction.

 

[R. Star]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

Honestly, even though you knew what was going to happen, this was a big moral conflict and Voyager did a wonderful job setting it up.

Fact of the matter is, what Janeway did was literally the equivilent of killing someone to harvest their organs to save other lives. I mean there's no way to get around that, she personally killed Tuvix against his will to save her friends. Certainly you can argue that morally Tuvix was a coward for not volunteering, but that's not a capital crime.

As for Picard? Honestly I see him giving a big moral lecture about how Tuvix -should- be willing to sacrifice himself to save two lives, and put the choice on him, but not make him do it in the end. Because it's not Picard's place to play god and decide who lives and dies and he's demonstrated he knows that on several occasions.

 

[Finn]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

imagine what the episode would have been like if it was Beverly and Deanna who merged. Of course it would have to be up to Ogawa to find a way to separate them (maybe that's how she got to be CMO in that reality...)

Riker and Picard looks at each other as Ogawa objects to the operation, considering they might never see Deanna and Beverly again...

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

But would not that have lead Picard to assist in the releasing of both Tuvok and Neelix from the "larger group" that is Tuvix?

Last I checked, one is smaller than two...

I'm not arguing against you, but I don't think it's correct to word it that way. It's ending ONE life (Tuvix) to save TWO lives (Tuvok and Neelix). Tuvok and Neelix are the larger group here, not Tuvix.

It's more like killing one person to save two hostages than saving a small group from a larger group.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

Picard would not have killed Tuvix.


To be fair, in a TNG episode, Tuvix would have made that decision himself. But VOY writers apparently felt the need to make Janeway look like a... I dunno... very bad person.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

If Tuvix's existence is viewed as the murder of Tuvok and Neelix, then it would be admirable of him to sacrifice himself to save them - but due to the nature of the situation, that would be his call, not Janeway's and not Picard's. If Tuvix's existence is viewed simply as a tragic accident resulting in their deaths, it would be even more poignant for him to sacrifice himself, since he's not being "punished" for their "murder" but rather doing a noble deed out of the goodness of his heart. That's the difference in the way TNG would have handled it compared to VOY.

That said, I believe Picard would have released Tuvok and Neelix, even even though it meant Tuvix's destruction.

And what makes you say that? I'm curious how you arrived to that using what we know of Picard.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

the "larger group" that is Tuvix?

Last I checked, one is smaller than two...

In some ways (imho) Tuvix really isn't one person, he's three. Because both Tuvok and Neelix are in there too.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

Physically/biologically they are, but not mentally...at least, I never thought it was hinted at that they were conscious or self-aware while being "trapped" in Tuvix.

 

[trekkermint]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

I was watching this recently, and immediately thought, download the personality into a holomatrix, then split them.

 

[The Librarian]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

Maybe Picard, with significantly greater scientific resources at hand, would have tried for a third solution: separate out Tuvok and Neelix, while still retaining Tuvix. After all, if the transporter can merge them and magic away a person's worth a mass, why couldn't it create (or more likely snag from replicator resources) sufficient mass to create a third body? You're already doing some seriously funky transporter wizardry to merge and separate them in the first place, I don't see any reason why it has to be an either/or situation, especially since the TNG transporter team has some experience with duplicates, de-aging, and other strangeness.

 

[Finn]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

^in other words, adjust the plot and the technobabble of the week?

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

The same thing would have happened regardless of which captain handled it simply because the show isn't going to ditch two of its stars like that.

 

[Finn]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

Especially Sisko. O'Bashrien would have exploded after 45 minutes, destroying the station in the process.

 

[R. Star]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

Picard would not have killed Tuvix.


To be fair, in a TNG episode, Tuvix would have made that decision himself. But VOY writers apparently felt the need to make Janeway look like a... I dunno... very bad person.

Voyager did this a lot. The goal is to make Janeway be authoritative, in charge and the one to make the tough calls. But they just botch it and either make her look sinister or stupid.

 

[Harbinger]

Re: How do you think Picard would've handled the Tuvix situation from

"Starfleet was founded to seek out new life... well, there it sits!"

The episode baffles me a bit considering that Tuvix is really just Tuvok and Neelix in one body. I understand the argument that once they melded, they became a new being but isn't it still technically those two? So, it's a new life but at the cost of two individual lives. It's a tough call and Janeway knew that. Look at her face as she's walking away at the end. She's not happy with the decision she felt she had to make.