How do you hail on all frequencies?
- Thread starter Odon
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It does what is says on the tin surely? Instead of broadcasting a message on one particular frequency you broadcast in on all the frequencies your equipment is able to?
...I guess the in-universe question goes, does "all" really mean all, or just "all from a given, non-infinite set"?
There might be galactic conventions by which 479 distinct frequencies are in use, but why would previously unencountered aliens subscribe to such conventions? Also, why would they use a device that utilizes "frequencies" to begin with? But even if they do, the methods of transmission, reception and packing of information may come from a set that is for all practical purposes infinite.
I gather it's realistic to assume Uhura is only doing that which is reasonable. Although, given the usual circumstances, the reasonable thing to do would be to apply the equipment to the fullest. It's just curious that this can always be done in 4.7 seconds...
A somewhat different issue is the ability to tell in those 4.7 seconds that there is "no response". It would probably be unrealistic to assume anybody from Earth would respond within 4.7 seconds even if space aliens hailed us at, say, internationally acknowledged aviation emergency frequencies, let alone on a common TV transmission frequency. Perhaps "response" has nothing to do with the guy at the other end, but refers to an automatic handshake that any decent starship computer can be expected to complete in less than five seconds?
The TOS quote above is rather exceptional in actually speaking of a "return signal", when "response" is the common and possibly misleading term usually used.
Timo Saloniemi
There might be galactic conventions by which 479 distinct frequencies are in use, but why would previously unencountered aliens subscribe to such conventions? Also, why would they use a device that utilizes "frequencies" to begin with? But even if they do, the methods of transmission, reception and packing of information may come from a set that is for all practical purposes infinite.
I gather it's realistic to assume Uhura is only doing that which is reasonable. Although, given the usual circumstances, the reasonable thing to do would be to apply the equipment to the fullest. It's just curious that this can always be done in 4.7 seconds...
A somewhat different issue is the ability to tell in those 4.7 seconds that there is "no response". It would probably be unrealistic to assume anybody from Earth would respond within 4.7 seconds even if space aliens hailed us at, say, internationally acknowledged aviation emergency frequencies, let alone on a common TV transmission frequency. Perhaps "response" has nothing to do with the guy at the other end, but refers to an automatic handshake that any decent starship computer can be expected to complete in less than five seconds?
The TOS quote above is rather exceptional in actually speaking of a "return signal", when "response" is the common and possibly misleading term usually used.
Timo Saloniemi
I would assume that we're talking about a finite set of simultaneous transmissions. My guess and assumption would be that "all frequencies" wouldn't mean every possible value from the continuum, but rather it would mean every value that is a valid base frequency for standard Federation transmissions.
For a real world example, the FM radio spectrum is divided into a finite number frequency bands. The channel number identifies is the center frequency value, as explained here in the case of North America:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_channel_numbers_assigned_to_FM_frequencies_in_North_America
For a real world example, the FM radio spectrum is divided into a finite number frequency bands. The channel number identifies is the center frequency value, as explained here in the case of North America:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_channel_numbers_assigned_to_FM_frequencies_in_North_America
...But the issue tends to be that the party being hailed in scenes like that (although not in the specific scene being quoted!) is not from the UFP, and may never have heard of the UFP. If it uses radio in a way that is compatible with UFP use, it won't observe the same band division. Except by sheer happenstance - but that would be just as improbable as them speaking English and dressing up like 20th century North Americans. 
We don't really know what "frequency" means in connection with the type of gear our heroes use, which very emphatically is not radio although our heroes are perfectly capable of listening to radio, too. But it might come with fewer applicable bands for all we know, working in some sort of a quantized realm or through a limited number of gaps in the medium. Warp appears to work best at integer values, at least in backstage doubletalk; perhaps subspace communication works the same way?
Timo Saloniemi
We don't really know what "frequency" means in connection with the type of gear our heroes use, which very emphatically is not radio although our heroes are perfectly capable of listening to radio, too. But it might come with fewer applicable bands for all we know, working in some sort of a quantized realm or through a limited number of gaps in the medium. Warp appears to work best at integer values, at least in backstage doubletalk; perhaps subspace communication works the same way?
Timo Saloniemi
I've always imagined it is somewhat analogous to television transmissions.
Each frequency equals a different channel. When you "hail on all frequencies" you are "broadcasting" on every channel. When opening a hailing frequency, you are "broadcasting" x 1.
Perhaps certain frequencies/channels are reserved for certain operations (diplomatic, ship to ship, urgent communiques, Emergency alerts, etc.)
Each frequency equals a different channel. When you "hail on all frequencies" you are "broadcasting" on every channel. When opening a hailing frequency, you are "broadcasting" x 1.
Perhaps certain frequencies/channels are reserved for certain operations (diplomatic, ship to ship, urgent communiques, Emergency alerts, etc.)
Presumably the selection of frequencies includes at least some considered to be "fundamental" such as the hydrogen line in SETI radio astronomy or irrational multiples of it [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_line#Relevance_to_the_search_for_non-human_intelligent_life]:...But the issue tends to be that the party being hailed in scenes like that (although not in the specific scene being quoted!) is not from the UFP, and may never have heard of the UFP. If it uses radio in a way that is compatible with UFP use, it won't observe the same band division. Except by sheer happenstance - but that would be just as improbable as them speaking English and dressing up like 20th century North Americans.
We don't really know what "frequency" means in connection with the type of gear our heroes use, which very emphatically is not radio although our heroes are perfectly capable of listening to radio, too. But it might come with fewer applicable bands for all we know, working in some sort of a quantized realm or through a limited number of gaps in the medium. Warp appears to work best at integer values, at least in backstage doubletalk; perhaps subspace communication works the same way?
Timo Saloniemi
The 21 cm hydrogen line is considered a favorable frequency by the SETI program in their search for signals from potential extraterrestrial civilizations. In 1959, Italian physicist Giuseppe Cocconi and American physicist Philip Morrison published "Searching for Interstellar Communications", a paper proposing the 21 cm hydrogen line and the potential of microwaves in the search for interstellar communications. According to George Basalla, the paper by Cocconi and Morrison "provided a reasonable theoretical basis" for the then nascent SETI program.[8] Similarly, Pyotr Makovetsky proposed SETI use a frequency which is equal to either
or
Since π is an irrational number, such a frequency could not possibly be produced in a natural way as a harmonic, and would clearly signify its artificial origin. Such a signal would not be overwhelmed by the H I line itself, or by any of its harmonics.[9]
π × 1420.40575177 MHz = 4.46233627 GHz
or
2π × 1420.40575177 MHz = 8.92467255 GHz
Since π is an irrational number, such a frequency could not possibly be produced in a natural way as a harmonic, and would clearly signify its artificial origin. Such a signal would not be overwhelmed by the H I line itself, or by any of its harmonics.[9]
Basically, the watering hole above is our only frequency for which a "rational" argument has been made. It's not working much. Probably the whole concept is worthless, and systems capable of interstellar communication aren't limited to "optimal" bands nor interested in catering for the caveman community.
But watering holes might exist in Trek for reasons unrelated to "rationalizing" or second-guessing of eetees. Possibly subspace radio indeed works only at certain specific frequencies, even though ordinary radio works on all and the significance of the watering hole is a mere desperate guess.
Timo Saloniemi
But watering holes might exist in Trek for reasons unrelated to "rationalizing" or second-guessing of eetees. Possibly subspace radio indeed works only at certain specific frequencies, even though ordinary radio works on all and the significance of the watering hole is a mere desperate guess.
Timo Saloniemi
Since there's no reason to think that anything would work better, i.e. since there is no practical means of communication with any extraterrestrials that might be out there that would more likely lead to contact or discovery, as a criticism of the methodology that doesn't carry much weight.
But it's worth pointing out that the method gets exactly zero corroboration until such contact is made. The universe is transparent on many bands, and it probably takes a human mind to think of this particular one as advantageous or special. But again only actually making contact would tell us whether this is so.
Using a "narrowband" approach to S/CETI, that is, believing that there is a single optimum solution or a handful of those, and further that it's practically possible to make use of said, is risky: if that approach really is the right one, then it basically automatically should follow that lack of contact means all the eetees are long dead or never existed. Otherwise even a handful of cultures would be saturating the optimum bands with stuff.
Conversely, a "broadband" approach inherently allows for space aliens even when we learn of none - that is, we learn nothing from learn nothing. And learning that is educational: if we blindly believe in "narrowband", then we really already have to accept that we are alone, even though this is a fallacy deriving from our belief rather than from our results.
Timo Saloniemi
Using a "narrowband" approach to S/CETI, that is, believing that there is a single optimum solution or a handful of those, and further that it's practically possible to make use of said, is risky: if that approach really is the right one, then it basically automatically should follow that lack of contact means all the eetees are long dead or never existed. Otherwise even a handful of cultures would be saturating the optimum bands with stuff.
Conversely, a "broadband" approach inherently allows for space aliens even when we learn of none - that is, we learn nothing from learn nothing. And learning that is educational: if we blindly believe in "narrowband", then we really already have to accept that we are alone, even though this is a fallacy deriving from our belief rather than from our results.
Timo Saloniemi
"All frequencies" in Star Trek is only in a specific category I believe. It could very well be all subspace frequencies, and we really don't know how many subspace frequencies there are. It could only be a few, that could be burst through fairly quickly. As an example, the Voyager could not detect AM radio because Starfleet ships only monitor what they call standard frequencies, and any frequency at light speed or lower isn't scanned for.
I like to think they might be hailing using some exotic energies not just radio. Geordi can see up to Gamma rays, right? Even weirder, Geordi saw neutrinos, so imagine a neutrino radio. There is also a scanner being worked on today which is an n-ray scanner which uses neutrons instead of x-rays. Then there is subspace radio, and subspace frequencies. Uhura picked up a conventional radio or television transmission at least once, which means she is listening for it even if it's considered mostly obsolete, so there's that too.
Given some of the exotic things crews can encounter it stand to reason they might try some seemingly weird means of communicating. Or, anyone in space is going to have found subspace tech, so trying any other frequency set is pointless.
Given some of the exotic things crews can encounter it stand to reason they might try some seemingly weird means of communicating. Or, anyone in space is going to have found subspace tech, so trying any other frequency set is pointless.
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