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How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and TMP?

Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

I'd argue there is at least as much progress being made today as there was fifty years ago - it just doesn't manifest in consumer goods at the moment. If anything, the mid-20th century was a time of stagnation where no significant discoveries were made in natural sciences, and experimentation and measuring techniques only slowly caught up with theories from the beginning of the century. In contrast, the recent decades have seen development in fields that are highly likely to have applications, such as nanotechnology, genetics, molecular engineering and computing.

Rapid progress might well exist regardless of need, and would instead create needs of its own. Equilibria may well be beneficial, yet also quite possibly unattainable. The ongoing trend of anti-globalization, the fragmentation of the world into increasingly dissimilar segments with astronomical income and lifestyle differences, may be both cause and effect for rapid development that necessarily leads to innovation explosions in parts of the world and stagnation and extinctions elsewhere. Singularity may hit us soon enough - but just some of "us", considering the fragmentation. Other segments may take radically different paths.

We might argue that the Trek society of Earth has reached an equilibrium only because it has stamped hard on any evolution of the human species, and because it has desperately grabbed and held onto the drag chute of the social inertia and historical ballast of hundreds of intertwined cultures in the interstellar community. Without an interstellar rat race in reverse (you only develop enough to match and beat the neighbor in the most conventional game possible), the individual cultures might have exploded technologically already.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

I mean realistically a military organization simply wouldn't drastically change their uniforms 3 times within 20 years.

No one has told the US Army, apparantly. The combat uniform being worn right now bears not a lot of resemblence to the one I wore in Desert Storm back in '91.

Also, there were a lot of changes in the uniforms in the 11 years before that between when I went to Basic and Desert Storm. there were uniforms I was issued in Basic that were being replaced less than a year later, and I actually ended up never wearing (the khaki Class-B short-sleave).

And there have been at least one or two variations between then and now, I'm pretty sure.
 
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Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

Without reading anything I attribute it to you wash my hand and I'll wash yours and we'll both white wash Star Trek and oh, yea, the designers union.
 
Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

If cost were no object, i.e. if we could drop our old models in a recycle slot and instantaneously replicate up the latest and greatest to replace them at the cost of just uttering a few words from the convenience of our very own kitchens, then I'm sure almost all of us holdouts would have cutting edge cellphones, me included.
 
Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

Certainly not - to the contrary, if cost were no object, I'd insist on replicas of earlier models, which had far greater utility and friendlier user interfaces. I want a proper telephone in my pocket (or preferably in my wrist or perhaps behind my ear) - I have absolutely no use for a flat computer with an unworkable interface.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

Certainly not - to the contrary, if cost were no object, I'd insist on replicas of earlier models, which had far greater utility and friendlier user interfaces. I want a proper telephone in my pocket (or preferably in my wrist or perhaps behind my ear) - I have absolutely no use for a flat computer with an unworkable interface.

Timo Saloniemi

I didn't say "all of us", I said "almost all of us". I stand by that.
 
Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

If cost were no object, i.e. if we could drop our old models in a recycle slot and instantaneously replicate up the latest and greatest to replace them at the cost of just uttering a few words from the convenience of our very own kitchens, then I'm sure almost all of us holdouts would have cutting edge cellphones, me included.

I was offered one of those flat-panel smartphone thingies when I got my new phone plan a few years ago, and part of the reason I went for a simpler model was cost (it was free with the contract), but part of it was that I simply didn't like the fancy, flashy, animated interface of the smartphone and preferred having good ol' buttons to push. Cost isn't the only reason people resist change. Some people are just more comfortable with what they're used to, and change just for the sake of change isn't necessarily a positive.
 
Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

Same reply as to Timo.

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Anyway, we're drifting away from the point I was making with respect to the thread, already made upthread too, which is that in a replicator economy, there's no appreciable cost to instantaneously upgrading equipment universally across the board. Starfleet doesn't need to keep old equipment around just to save on the cost of replacing it.
 
Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

^But just because it could happen, does that mean it would? If a design works fine as it is, why replace it? And if upgrades are as easy as you say, doesn't that in fact argue that they would be happening constantly and incrementally, rather than all at once?
 
Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

^But just because it could happen, does that mean it would? If a design works fine as it is, why replace it? And if upgrades are as easy as you say, doesn't that in fact argue that they would be happening constantly and incrementally, rather than all at once?

As long as designs can be incrementally improved, I would say yes. But individual designs can only be improved to a local maximum, generally speaking, at which point more radical departures are necessary for further improvements. Then, you're dealing with a new design and a separate lineage of incremental improvements.
 
Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

I actually miss the good ol' telephone handset of the 60s. It was comfortable. Talking with a flat slabby thing, trying to tuck it into my shoulder while getting a drink, is uncomfortable. It's be cool to have a classic household phone with all modern functionality - maybe an iphone-like touch screen in place of the dial/keypad. But with a good ol' comfy handset.
 
Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

...With all this experimentation with interface types that just plain don't pan out, and weird shapes for the device, what's the reason we still don't have phones that don't need holding?

I mean, I have better things to do with my hands. I may be bothered to operate the phone with them, yes, but to hold it? "How quaint!"

For some reason, the wristcomms of TMP and ST2 were a failure. Thinking of in-universe reasons is fun enough, but what was the real dramatic reason? Fear of being associated with Dick Tracy before Warren Beatty made him fashionable again / un-associable for real, take your pick?

Timo Saloniemi
 
Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

There's a reason for not being too comfortable with something. first, you might lose it if it is too small, or it's sown into the shirt and you lose your shirt, etc. It also had more than one purpse in TOS - the communicator doubled as other things occasionally. also the modern blue tooth hook up to your ear is annoying to other people for a few reasons. One, you could forget and talk in the car and be distracted and get into a car crash. Also I'm annoyed seeing people walking down the street seemingly talking loudly to themselves and laughing, all while maybe looking at you.
I have frankly no desire to hear people talking about nothing on the streets, saying I'm walking and breathing and chewing gum. Look ma no hands. Caused more than a few fights in bars, etc. and was illegalized not only in cars but subways, trains, planes, restaurants, libraries and hospitals for different reasons, etc. because the din of the idle chatter was driving everybody crazy and was considered plain rude.
 
Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

...Some folks argue that this is a new style of living, and indeed drives us literally crazy because we aren't equipped to cope with this sort of an "information environment", with endless flow, constant interruptions and so forth.

I say, it's just the ultimate return to the stone age. We were designed to spend our lives in tight groups where constant chatter kept the social bonds strong and flexible. Even with global messaging at our fingertips, we're still only handling the buzz of some 150 people at a time, tops - the way it was done in tribal environments. And if we have forgotten how to shut off the unnecessary bits and concentrate on what is essential, amusing, relaxing... Why, we only need to spend an afternoon with sensible old (or middle-aged, or young) ladies engaged in something harmlessly communal. Cell phones, tweets and chats aren't ruining that.

Also, we had a much healthier attitude towards village idiots only a hundred years ago.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Re: How do you account for the drastic design change between TOS and T

There's an old Robin Williams routine from around 1980 where he makes fun of homeless people. It went something like this:

"The crazy homeless people are really interesting. I was always fascinated with the homeless guy walking down the sidewalk talking to himself. What if in reality there's another homeless guy on the other side of the city having the other half of the conversation?"

Now with bluetooth headsets, the above scenario is common place. How prophetic.
 
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