How do/did you feel about the return of the Enterprise-D?

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I thought recovering the Ent-D saucer was dumb. Wouldn't it have made more sense to drop a few photon torpedoes onto the wreckage and call it a day? The people on Veridian IV were pre-industrial, so it's not like they were going to Veridian III anytime soon. What was the hurry to move the saucer? Shouldn't the spaceframe have been warped beyond repair from slamming into a planet and taking down a few mountains, carving up and exploding a valley? I always imagined the lower decks ceased to exist, ground away from the saucer sliding full throttle through the valley.

This is why bringing back the Ent-D was dumb to me. However, I get why they did it for storytelling and nostalgia purposes. The Ent-F cameo was stupid, it should have been the Ent-E, and it should have gone out in a blaze of glory. This would have made the retreat to the Ent-D far more urgent and emotional. Also, the Ent-G was stupid. Just leave it the Ent-A. We didn't need to see a new Ent-G, and we didn't need to see the Ent-D return to spacedock. I'd have been fine with the show ending with the Ent-D still in service while they figure out the Ent-G. Speaking of Spacedock, how did they rebuild such a massive construct in just one year?

 

[fireproof78]

Just leave it the Ent-A.

Time travel?

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I meant Titan-A. No time travel needed, the Ent-A was parked at the old Spacedock.

 

[fireproof78]

I meant Titan-A. No time travel needed, the Ent-A was parked at the old Spacedock.

I figured but couldn't resist.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I'm sure they didn't want to explain to the admirals back home that the museum would be missing another Enterprise because picking it up seemed like too much effort.

Starfleet thought that the ship was damaged beyond repair too, but Geordi disagreed with them and he pretty convincingly won that argument in the end. Starfleet ships are tough enough to survive an impact with the ground as long as they're not coming in as fast as Voyager did in Timeless.

What was wrong with the Enterprise F cameo? The E managed to stay in service longer than the NX-01, the A, the D, the Defiant and Voyager, so it had a good run. Picard took place long enough after Nemesis for another Enterprise to have been around in the meantime.

Also I get the impression most people disliked the Titan getting renamed, especially as it was a refit of Riker's famous vessel! And also a brand new ship named in its honour! I feel like if the episode had gotten test screenings like a movie, that scene would've been changed.

They couldn't have ended with the Enterprise D in service, as it couldn't even go warp 9.billion like their new ships can. Also the spaceframe was probably warped or something...

And Spacedock was only wounded, not killed. If Voyager can be completely repaired by next week no matter the damage then Spacedock can be restored by next year.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I figured but couldn't resist.

Hey, it's not like the TNG crew haven't seen wilder stuff.

 

[HotRod]

What was wrong with the Enterprise F cameo?

It was ugly and pointless. It should've been the Enterprise-E, a ship the audience at least had some kinda connection with. Instead, they pulled an ugly design from a game that only 0.03% of the audience had ever seen.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I'm sure they didn't want to explain to the admirals back home that the museum would be missing another Enterprise because picking it up seemed like too much effort.

Starfleet thought that the ship was damaged beyond repair too, but Geordi disagreed with them and he pretty convincingly won that argument in the end. Starfleet ships are tough enough to survive an impact with the ground as long as they're not coming in as fast as Voyager did in Timeless.

What was wrong with the Enterprise F cameo? The E managed to stay in service longer than the NX-01, the A, the D, the Defiant and Voyager, so it had a good run. Picard took place long enough after Nemesis for another Enterprise to have been around in the meantime.

Also I get the impression most people disliked the Titan getting renamed, especially as it was a refit of Riker's famous vessel! And also a brand new ship named in its honour! I feel like if the episode had gotten test screenings like a movie, that scene would've been changed.

They couldn't have ended with the Enterprise D in service, as it couldn't even go warp 9.billion like their new ships can. Also the spaceframe was probably warped or something...

And Spacedock was only wounded, not killed. If Voyager can be completely repaired by next week no matter the damage then Spacedock can be restored by next year.

#1 We don't know just how much damage the saucer took to the lower decks (11-16). We do know that when Voyager slammed into the ice world in "Timeless," the engineering hull (decks 11-15) were flattened. The only real difference between the two crashes was Voyager hitting harder, and the techno-fields keeping the crew from being WWE'd to death instantly. The engineering hull being crushed presumably happened as the ship slid across the ice for who knows how long. When the crash sequence ended, the ship was tilted to the right with only the left nacelle torn apart.

#2 I don't have a problem with the saucer being towed to space and back to Spacedock given everything else we see in Star Trek. It's mostly just the sheer size of the ship and how hard it hit the planet that had be go: BS!

#3 I just found the Ent-F cameo to be a waste of screen time. Coming home for decommissioning with only a few mins of screen time... it should have been the Ent-E from the movies, not the Ent-F from a video game casual viewers never played and possibly didn't know existed. The main issue is there's just zero emotion with the Ent-F. "Oh, look, a new Enterprise... oh... NM, it's retired." Now, imagine it's the Enterprise-E, imagine Admiral Shelby's taken command for the ceremony. Imagine we see the ship shot to hell. Imagine seeing the Ent-E bridge trashed, on fire, a bloody Shelby with a dead bridge crew, Admiral Shelby giving out the order to do anything and everything necessary to save the Earth, and the Borg-controlled fleet blasting the Ent-E apart. Now that would have been emotional!

#4 I just take the Titan-A as a new ship and ignore the refit dialogue. Why name it Ent-G? Ugh!!!

#5 The ship was in service for a year before returning to Spacedock with the Tit... Ent-G about to launch. I'd have bene fine with some dialogue about the Ent-D patrolling Earth until the next Enterprise is ready. I mean, the ship's not even that old. It's only what, 35 years old or something? Aren't these Galaxy-class ships supposed to be able to cruise around for a full century with upgrading in mind as the decades go by?

#6 Spacedock exploded.

 

[David cgc]

It was ugly and pointless. It should've been the Enterprise-E, a ship the audience at least had some kinda connection with. Instead, they pulled an ugly design from a game that only 0.03% of the audience had ever seen.

In retrospect, I think actually the show should've used the Enterprise-E in place of the Titan-A. The E-F's ending is terrible, at least by keeping it vague, there's the option for a better "final mission" story for the E-E being told at some point in the future (maybe even three or four contradictory ones between novels, comics, and video games, never mind fan-fic). Using the -E as the main ship of the season would've been best, through. The problem is, that doesn't fit with modern Trek's "new for newness's sake" philosophy (except when it comes to mid-run TNG, we can't fucking stop bringing back mid-run TNG), having to recreate sets and models from the TNG movies rather than new, shiny ones (or, again, stuff from mid-run TNG, the aesthetically ugliest era of the franchise).

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

In retrospect, I think actually the show should've used the Enterprise-E in place of the Titan-A. The E-F's ending is terrible, at least by keeping it vague, there's the option for a better "final mission" story for the E-E being told at some point in the future (maybe even three or four contradictory ones between novels, comics, and video games, never mind fan-fic). Using the -E as the main ship of the season would've been best, through. The problem is, that doesn't fit with modern Trek's "new for newness's sake" philosophy (except when it comes to mid-run TNG, we can't fucking stop bringing back mid-run TNG), having to recreate sets and models from the TNG movies rather than new, shiny ones (or, again, stuff from mid-run TNG, the aesthetically ugliest era of the franchise).

I would 100% be behind having the Enterprise-E over the Titan-A. End the season with the ship's destruction and the crew fleeing in escape pods. Imagine Seven and Raffi with the LaForge daughters in an escape pod, watching the Ent-E go boom. I'd have been fine with the exterior changed up a bit, and we could have had the same sets we got in the finished show, just call it an internal refit and on with it.

My understanding is that we got the Titan-A instead of a live-action (CGI?) version of the Titan we saw on Lower Decks, because the S3 producer wanted a TMP-Enterprise-like ship.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I don't think the Enterprise E's destruction would've had the intended effect on the audience after so many returning characters have been killed off. I mean personally, my reaction to Shelby's death was an eye roll. Of course they only brought her back just to kill her off, how bloody typical for this show. (I mean Picard still killed the E retroactively, but at least we didn't have to see it go out in a cameo appearance in another ship's story).

Also I checked and Spacedock merely burst into flame. It was just a bit scorched, we never saw it come apart.

In retrospect, I think actually the show should've used the Enterprise-E in place of the Titan-A.

The trouble with using the E in place of the Titan-A (or using the Titan in place of the Titan-A), is that the ship was treated like a humble underdog. It wasn't the badass flagship of the fleet, it had to run away and hide. Though yeah, the real problem is that it wasn't a new design, and there was no way they were going to set an entire season on a ship we'd seen before.

 

[David cgc]

My understanding is that we got the Titan-A instead of a live-action (CGI?) version of the Titan we saw on Lower Decks, because the S3 producer wanted a TMP-Enterprise-like ship.

It was quite clear that, as far as the writer was concerned, this was the same ship that Riker took command of at the end of NEM. It only got the "-A" suffix as a patch over the fact that Lower Decks had already canonized the novelverse design for the Titan.

The trouble with using the E in place of the Titan-A (or using the Titan in place of the Titan-A), is that the ship was treated like a humble underdog. It wasn't the badass flagship of the fleet, it had to run away and hide.

Maybe, but it's been 22 years since NEM in-universe, the ship is nearly thirty years old and had been through a lot in FC and NEM. It could be similar to the original Enterprise in TWOK/TSFS, a ship that had been top of the line even ten years earlier, but was showing its age and had been rotated away from the front lines and was one or two tough space-battles away from being declared a total loss.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I don't think the Enterprise E's destruction would've had the intended effect on the audience after so many returning characters have been killed off. I mean personally, my reaction to Shelby's death was an eye roll. Of course they only brought her back just to kill her off, how bloody typical for this show. (I mean Picard still killed the E retroactively, but at least we didn't have to see it go out in a cameo appearance in another ship's story).

Also I checked and Spacedock merely burst into flame. It was just a bit scorched, we never saw it come apart.


The trouble with using the E in place of the Titan-A (or using the Titan in place of the Titan-A), is that the ship was treated like a humble underdog. It wasn't the badass flagship of the fleet, it had to run away and hide. Though yeah, the real problem is that it wasn't a new design, and there was no way they were going to set an entire season on a ship we'd seen before.

#1 I just feel the Ent-E falling would have more emotional impact than the Ent-F, and seeing it go boom would also have some impact on our characters and make retreating to the Ent-D make more sense, to me at least. PIC S3 is basically TNG S8, so why not?

#2 With like a thousand starships opening fire when ONE can level all major cities across an entire planet, I don't imagine Spacedock would have done anything less than kaboom.

#3 I mean, I get what you're saying, they wanted a new ship. I really didn't mind the Titan-A. They never explicitly said what happened to the first, so I just assumed either destroyed or trashed in space battle and not worth fixing. The Titan-A was less battleship, more peaceful explorer. If we can retroactively say the Akira-class is a 24th century take on the NX-class, we can say the whatever-class is the Titan-A is a 24/25th century take on the Constitution-refit.

 

[The Wormhole]

It should've been the Enterprise-E, a ship the audience at least had some kinda connection with.

As well as the TNG characters themselves. They served on it for almost as long as they did the D, Picard commanded it longer than the D, while it was Worf's first (and maybe only?) command. For them to have seen it lost at the Frontier Day ceremony should have been an emotional gut punch, given some think ships are also characters, then we'd be seeing the TNG cast watching the loss of "one of their own" so to say. Hell, by then bringing the Enterprise D out of mothballs to save the day, you could even have turned it into something poetic, the phoenix rising out of the ashes to avenge its successor or something. If they absolutely had to have the Odyssey class Enterprise F from STO there, just have that be the ship Seven takes command of at the end.

I swear half the problem with S3 is that the really stupid decisions could be corrected just by spending five minutes thinking things through. But of course, Lord Terry was after the memberberries rather than a coherent story.

 

[Tomalak]

I feel the main reason is because "Enterprise Eff" just sounds stupid. "Enterprise Gee" flows like the B, C, D, E etc.

So Matalas disposed of the F whilst also throwing a bone to the fans who care about it from STO.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

It was quite clear that, as far as the writer was concerned, this was the same ship that Riker took command of at the end of NEM. It only got the "-A" suffix as a patch over the fact that Lower Decks had already canonized the novelverse design for the Titan.

Maybe, but it's been 22 years since NEM in-universe, the ship is nearly thirty years old and had been through a lot in FC and NEM. It could be similar to the original Enterprise in TWOK/TSFS, a ship that had been top of the line even ten years earlier, but was showing its age and had been rotated away from the front lines and was one or two tough space-battles away from being declared a total loss.

#1 That might be why there's conflicting dialogue. I think at the start, they might have been unaware of the Titan popping up on Lower Decks. "Crap, slap an A on it, fix the dialogue." haha

#2 Agreed!

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

As well as the TNG characters themselves. They served on it for almost as long as they did the D, Picard commanded it longer than the D, while it was Worf's first (and maybe only?) command. For them to have seen it lost at the Frontier Day ceremony should have been an emotional gut punch, given some think ships are also characters, then we'd be seeing the TNG cast watching the loss of "one of their own" so to say. Hell, by then bringing the Enterprise D out of mothballs to save the day, you could even have turned it into something poetic, the phoenix rising out of the ashes to avenge its successor or something. If they absolutely had to have the Odyssey class Enterprise F from STO there, just have that be the ship Seven takes command of at the end.

I swear half the problem with S3 is that the really stupid decisions could be corrected just by spending five minutes thinking things through. But of course, Lord Terry was after the memberberries rather than a coherent story.

Agree full throttle. Well said!

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I feel the main reason is because "Enterprise Eff" just sounds stupid. "Enterprise Gee" flows like the B, C, D, E etc.

So Matalas disposed of the F whilst also throwing a bone to the fans who care about it from STO.

S2 and S3 borrowed background ships from STO, likely to save money, I guess. Ent Ent-E was just one of many things ported over. "Look, it's the Ent-F from that video game some of you play." That's literally the only reason it's in the show.

The Titan-A being the Enterprise-G was Matalas just being "that" in love with his "new" Constitution. Too much TMP-era fangasms.

 

[Tomalak]

S2 and S3 borrowed background ships from STO, likely to save money, I guess. Ent Ent-E was just one of many things ported over. "Look, it's the Ent-F from that video game some of you play." That's literally the only reason it's in the show.

It was a direct response to fans moaning about the "copy and paste" fleet in season one.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

It was a direct response to fans moaning about the "copy and paste" fleet in season one.

It's still the copy-and-paste fleet, instead of 3 almost identical ships copy-and-pasted a like a hundred times over, we got the "copy-and-paste from STO" fleet. LOL I get what you're saying. Honestly, I think it was smart, it shows Starfleet to have more than a handful of ship designs, and it saves money.

I just think the Ent-F cameo should have been an Ent-E cameo.