How do Admirals and Starships work in Starfleet
- Thread starter Luckyflux
- Start date
I understand that quite clearly. However, I showed an Admiral can take command of a ship for quite a while.
Just because in your opinion the writers and creator of this franchise knew nothing about how the Admirals that they created doesnt really work. It's still canon.
Threats of "youd do well not to blah blah blah" is not only off topic, but certainly a little harsh for using a small term of endearment. You should know that... Youre the "Vice Admiral" and know more about this franchise than I ever could because you like to "post".
Interesting.
Then you should go look at those movies again, because:
TMP: Kirk takes a temporary demotion to Captain for the V'Ger mission.
TWOK: Captain Spock is in charge of the Enterprise until after the call from Regula is received. Kirk meets with Spock in his quarters to discuss the situation, then goes to the bridge and announces he is taking command of the vessel. Hence, he wasn't in command before.
TSFS: Same mission as above. Kirk is in command until Enterprise returns to dock. After that Kirk STEALS the Enterprise so you really can no longer site this as an Admrial being in command.
TVH: Kirk is demoted to Captain prior to assuming command of Enterprise A.
TMP: Kirk convinced Nogura to grant him command of the Enterprise in order to intercept V'Ger. Who was the one that demoted Captain Decker of the Enterprise? Who "allowed" Decker to stay on as Exec. Officer and took the role of captain so he could play in space again? It was Kirk. Not only does Kirk take command in 2371, he also embarks on another 5 year mission between TMP and TWOK commanding the Enterprise. He then resumes his Admiral duties prior to TWOK.
TWOK: Spock was only in command of the training cruise. Spock told Kirk "As a teacher on a training mission, I am content to command the Enterprise. If we are to go on actual duty, it is clear that the senior officer on board must assume command." Kirk didn't want to take it from Spock but secretly wanted his command back anyways. Spock had "no ego to bruise".
Hence, Kirk was only on board for "inspection". They werent on actual duty. Only on a little training cruise commanded by Spock. Once the Ship went on actual duty, Kirk took command.
TSFS: He did steal the Enterprise but as you aid Kirk was still in command after retrieving the crew from Reliant and headed back to space dock...So yeah.. It still counts.
And oh yes....I am well aware of what happened in TVH.
Perhaps you should look at the movies again. Maybe?
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I for one don't really care that much about the admiral/captain thing, but find it incredibly rude and arrogant of you to call your fellow posters "you kids."
Flag officers in the USN have their "own" ship that they use as their "flagship."
Same I assume in the Federation.
Same I assume in the Federation.
But Kirk in no longer an Admiral:
TMP said:
Kirk delivers the news of Deckers demotion. There is no indication he ordered it. It might have come from Nogura as part of the transfer of command orders.
Once Kirk is in command he can assign who ever he wants to any position, as he does when he maked Decker Science Officer.
Do we have any on screen evidence Kirk went on a 5 year mission with the refit?
Thats Spock's logical take on the situation. That Kirk goes to him to explain that he's taking command indicated special circumstances. Kirk conversation with Starfleet command prior to this probably gave him the authority to do what he thought was best. Getting Spocks okay was common courtesy.
Since the actual Captain (Spock) was dead, of course he'd take Command.
Then lets not use threats for an answer to your opinion of arrogance. Perhaps you "don't like to lose"
And as for above..... Yes, not a matter of interpretation. It was Kirks intention to be on that ship. We cant go by what we think Nogura or someone may have told him to do, we must go by what we saw.
The admiral took the ship from the Captain. He was the ranking officer.
Done.
Cr031k, you will find that many members of this board have egos which are easily bruised, often taking offense where none was given. I did not find your term offensive in the least. You may call me "kid" any time you wish.
Then lets not use threats for an answer to your opinion of arrogance. Perhaps you "don't like to lose"
And as for above..... Yes, not a matter of interpretation. It was Kirks intention to be on that ship. We cant go by what we think Nogura or someone may have told him to do, we must go by what we saw.
The admiral took the ship from the Captain. He was the ranking officer.
Done.
Abraham Lincoln's response to Uhura most likely applies in this instance.
Only in the novels, though. When we next meet him in the canon universe, he's a bitter paper-pusher. There's never any mention of him having commanded the Enterprise or any other ship after TMP.
In ST:GEN, Kirk in the Nexus makes noises that might suggest he retired from Starfleet some time before 2284, and returned there that year, just in time for ST2. Then again, the same words might be taken to merely indicate he considered retiring. Apart from this, we know squat about what he was doing between the two movies. And we don't really have much evidence of other Admirals commanding starships in that era, either. Or in other eras.
What would have been fun to see is Admiral Riker and some never-before-seen Captain on the bridge of the three-nacelled ship in "AGT..". This "actual" captain of the ship could have been any random extra, and could have gotten all the lines spoken by the extra called "Gaines" in the script...
Timo Saloniemi
