How Disney/Lucasfilm could bring Indiana Jones back

[FreezeC77]

Disney declares Indiana Jones dead after losing millions

After decades of thrilling adventures, Indiana Jones may have finally met his match — not a villain, but Disney itself. Following the disappointing box office performance of Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny, Lucasfilm has confirmed that the legendary archaeologist won’t be returning to...

www.yahoo.com

The film also took its biggest creative risk by introducing a time travel element that pushed the franchise beyond its traditional archaeological roots. The divisive finale, which catapulted Indy back to the Siege of Syracuse in 214 BC, left many fans and critics questioning if the series had finally strayed too far from its grounded origins.

Wait.... Indiana Jones was grounded? We talking about the same franchise here? The movie that the biblical Ark of the Covenant melted Nazis into a pile of goo in the first film?

That had a character reach into a person's chest like putting their hand into a bowl of jello and rip out that person's heart while the person continued to live (until being burned alive) in the second film.

That in the third movie returned to biblical elements and had the HOLY GRAIL appear and have kept a templar knight alive for centuries and miraculously healed a gunshot wound.

(and let's not get into the aliens in #4)

 

[JD]

Did people really have a problem with the time travel? Like you said, I don't really see where it takes things that much farther than all of the other crazy super natural crap in the other movies.

 

[the G-man]

Did people really have a problem with the time travel? Like you said, I don't really see where it takes things that much farther than all of the other crazy super natural crap in the other movies.

I think The thing is: Once you introduce time travel it’s arguably a “time travel” story, making it a different genre than whatever the Indy movies are (archaeological action fantasy?)

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I think The thing is: Once you introduce time travel it’s arguably a “time travel” story, making it a different genre than whatever the Indy movies are (archaeological action fantasy?)

Why can't it be both?

 

[Set Harth]

I think The thing is: Once you introduce time travel it’s arguably a “time travel” story, making it a different genre than whatever the Indy movies are (archaeological action fantasy?)

Superhero films use time travel without becoming a different genre.

 

[JD]

I think The thing is: Once you introduce time travel it’s arguably a “time travel” story, making it a different genre than whatever the Indy movies are (archaeological action fantasy?)

I don't really see it that way, since the story doesn't focus on the time travel.

 

[Saul]

Did people really have a problem with the time travel?

Not really. The film had far bigger problems than that.

 

[camdudetenger2018]

Did people really have a problem with the time travel? Like you said, I don't really see where it takes things that much farther than all of the other crazy super natural crap in the other movies.

lol controversys

 

[Gaith]

Do I have a problem with the idea of time travel in an Indy film? Not necessarily, no. Not if it's a religious/supernatural or random and unpredictable phenomenon. Say, there could have been a time gate, much like a Stargate, that was operated by an Antikythera mechanism, drawing upon mystical power from a diamond necklace said to have been given to the Pythia (the high priestess/Oracle of Delphi) by the god Apollo himself.

Do I have a problem, however, with the idea that an ancient Greek mathematician was able to predict when time travel storms would occur, as in, dates and times, thousands of years into the future? Yeah, I do. It'd be like if an ancient Chinese healer character was shown to have mathematically devised a cure for aging that used RNA and genetic editing to rewrite bodies at a cellular level. Both those sorts of math and technology would obviously be far beyond any human capability for their time.

As for the role of time travel in the story, both Indy and the main villain should have discovered some proof that it both exists and can work in the movie's first act. Instead, Voller throws away a comfortable life based on the wild guess that 1) the other half of the dial still exists, and wasn't destroyed at some point, 2) the combined dial would allow him to time travel, 3) and thus change the past, meaning that the past even can be changed, and 4) that said time travel can be both reliable and safe for human use. All of this, just because he took a brief glance at half of the dial decades prior, before getting hit on the head and falling off a train. That's just... bad writing.

 

[JD]

It kind of amazes that the Indy books and comics haven't been more popular, especially the comics. He really is the kind of character that is perfect for comics.

 

[camdudetenger2018]

20 pages of the indiana jones thread

i thought there would be more

 

[tharpdevenport]

The second film and the crap they did in it, was terrible and it should be forgotten. There's no excuse to saying we can have one thing because a crappy film had another. It's conceptually lazy on the writer's part.

Now, that that is out of the way, we have the powers of the Ark of the Covenant and Holy Chalice (cup of Christ). Whether the cup has powers of any kind, it's nonetheless reported to have powers as demonstrated in the film and more. Again, the same applies to the Arc of the Covenant. Whether you are religious or not, from the stand point that God and Christ are, and that therefore there is the possibility the mythos is just that: possible. So it's in realm of realism.

Then you have a crystal alien skull that can somehow summon multiple alien entities into one alien entity that can then attack, then we get an alien space ship, mind you are all interdimentional. Whether you want to believe aliens exist, naturally assume that with so much space and trillions of stars and therefore it would be such a huge waste if it was just us (which seems entirely unrealistic just one planet has humanoid life), or what you think of of interdimentional travel, it's speculative, not "Real" like the Holy Chalice or the Ark of the Covenant. Then you kitbash it together with aliens. It's gone outside of Indiana Jones "Realism".

Then you have time travel. I don't think I need to say more. Once again, it's gone outside of Indiana Jones "Realism".

Mr. Smithers once said to Mr. Burns in in "The Simpsons" two-parter "Who Shot Mr. Burns?" that Mr. Burns had gone from every day villainy to cartoon-ish super villainy. That's what I deem this kind of stuff. I've not yet landed on terminology which I regularly use, so in the past I may have used different terms at this board, but there's buyable realism grounded in some kind of reality, then there's cartoon-ish reality, not tethered and able to do what ever as long as people are willing to pay to see it.

Part of what made Indiana Jones so great (again, side from that second film...) was a "real" man looking to preserve real artifacts of historical significance and his journey and quest to attain them, within the fictional "Real" world (the "Indy'verse" as I'll call it). Is it realistic he could have been after an artifact in a cave that is booby trapped? Yes. It's it realistic he could have comes across the Ark? Yes. Is it realistic he could have come face-to-face with Hitler? Yes. Is it realistic he could have found the "living" skull of an alien interdimentional being? No. Is it realistic he traveled back in time? No. Is it realistic he found a time travel device? No. Is it realistic his time traveling had no apparent consequences on the future? No. Is it realistic given all the real world historical artifacts someone like him would spend his money on traveling around the world to preserve to find and nearly lose his life over repeatedly, are skipped over so he would go about looking for a crystal skull and a time travel device? No.

Just because Hollywood can, doesn't mean it should.

They've taken the real man/real world appealing nature of the films, the heart, and turned it into faux "epic" quests for new audiences, probably all in an attempt to make this a franchise.

Then they make two films like this, blame us for not liking their deliberate mis-fires, and stop any other projects they were working on because of what they did. This is not that far off from Eric Cartman saying Kyle was cranky and had sand in his vagina, in an episode of "South Park".

 

[Set Harth]

The second film and the crap they did in it, was terrible and it should be forgotten. There's no excuse to saying we can have one thing because a crappy film had another. It's conceptually lazy on the writer's part.

Now, that that is out of the way, we have the powers of the Arc of the Covenant and Holy Chalice (cup of Christ). Whether the cup has powers of any kind, it's nonetheless reported to have powers as demonstrated in the film and more. Again, the same applies to the Arc of the Covenant. Whether you are religious or not, from the stand point that God and Christ are, and that therefore there is the possibility the mythos is just that: possible. So it's in realm of realism.

This is nonsense. ( And it's an Ark, not an Arc. )

 

[Qonundrum]

Disney declares Indiana Jones dead after losing millions

After decades of thrilling adventures, Indiana Jones may have finally met his match — not a villain, but Disney itself. Following the disappointing box office performance of Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny, Lucasfilm has confirmed that the legendary archaeologist won’t be returning to...

www.yahoo.com

Indiana Jones had come about by people digging through the proverbial archaeology of decades-gone-by serials, revived and innovated on these tropes, and the result feeling original upon premiere thanks to every element coming together to be more than the sum of its parts (plus, how few examples of the genre had existed by 1981). The serials of old had been thought of in response to various influences that had those writers creating what was novel at the time as well.

In a few decades, and time is relative, what made the old serials work, and add in Indy as he's no less a fossil given he was an 80s creation dug out of cryosleep for a couple final adventures, the pattern will continue, the pattern will be cyclical and eventually a new character that people will flock to will be made that may be loosely based on the flair of Indy but is a new character with new backdrop with new adventures that feel new despite Indy as an influence and in its own universe that will get fleshed out until they hit an impasse and then it gets rested again.

Indy, as with the serials that helped influence him, will still remain immortal.

 

[FPAlpha]

That franchise is dead and maybe it should stay so.

I suffered through Crystall Skull and apart from the fact that Marion Ravenwood came back and they tried to pin a possible continuation with LaBeouf's character that completely failed i can't remember a single piece of the story anymore and here we are with Dial of Destiny that i couldn't even watch completely it's safe to say we should let it rest.

It's not the age of Ford, he's still a brilliant actor and i don't need to see him do the intense fights of the first three movies, but that the stories and characters in them were so unappealing and ridiculous ( and this is the franchise with the face melting Ark of the Covenant, magic Hindu stones and the Holy Grail).

So for all intents and purposes i'll be sticking to the first three movies and the Young Indiana Jones show, that's more than enough.

 

[JD]

The second film and the crap they did in it, was terrible and it should be forgotten. There's no excuse to saying we can have one thing because a crappy film had another. It's conceptually lazy on the writer's part.

Now, that that is out of the way, we have the powers of the Ark of the Covenant and Holy Chalice (cup of Christ). Whether the cup has powers of any kind, it's nonetheless reported to have powers as demonstrated in the film and more. Again, the same applies to the Arc of the Covenant. Whether you are religious or not, from the stand point that God and Christ are, and that therefore there is the possibility the mythos is just that: possible. So it's in realm of realism.

Then you have a crystal alien skull that can somehow summon multiple alien entities into one alien entity that can then attack, then we get an alien space ship, mind you are all interdimentional. Whether you want to believe aliens exist, naturally assume that with so much space and trillions of stars and therefore it would be such a huge waste if it was just us (which seems entirely unrealistic just one planet has humanoid life), or what you think of of interdimentional travel, it's speculative, not "Real" like the Holy Chalice or the Ark of the Covenant. Then you kitbash it together with aliens. It's gone outside of Indiana Jones "Realism".

The crystal skull and all of the mythology behind it is just as real the arc and the grail, so it's not really fair to be OK with the first two but then criticize them for using the third.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Only if you ignore damn near everything I wrote.

 

[Tosk]

Okay, I will.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The crystal skull and all of the mythology behind it is just as real the arc and the grail, so it's not really fair to be OK with the first two but then criticize them for using the third.

Seriously.

 

[JD]

Only if you ignore damn near everything I wrote.

Yes, I only choose to discuss the Crystal Skull because I didn't feel like addressing the other stuff you talked about.