• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

How did you picture the prequel era/story before the prequels?

Not at all ridiculous. You act like it was supposed to be a conscious decision.
Perhaps because her death was largely unexplained so it feels very ridiculous. Her dying may not have been a conscious decision, but what explanation are we given? "She lost the will to live?" I'm guessing the instinct to protect one's children is not strong in the GFFA. :shrug:
 
Perhaps because her death was largely unexplained so it feels very ridiculous. Her dying may not have been a conscious decision, but what explanation are we given? "She lost the will to live?" I'm guessing the instinct to protect one's children is not strong in the GFFA. :shrug:

I don't buy it as an explanation in this instance, but postpartum depression is a real thing (as is PTSD and a number of other mental conditions that have real physical effects) that can render a person unable to care for their children, so the existence parental instincts alone cannot refute the notion.

For me the key phrase is: "Medically, she's completely healthy. For reasons we can't explain, we are losing her....We don't know why."
I tend to think that this suggests something else is going on, hence the theory that she's not loosing the will to live so much as it's being drained out of her through the force. That or a combination of it and giving her life force to the twins to protect them from the very same effect.
 
I don't buy it as an explanation in this instance, but postpartum depression is a real thing (as is PTSD and a number of other mental conditions that have real physical effects) that can render a person unable to care for their children, so the existence parental instincts alone cannot refute the notion.

For me the key phrase is: "Medically, she's completely healthy. For reasons we can't explain, we are losing her....We don't know why."
I tend to think that this suggests something else is going on, hence the theory that she's not loosing the will to live so much as it's being drained out of her through the force. That or a combination of it and giving her life force to the twins to protect them from the very same effect.
I've experienced Postpartum depression and it is scary as anything, as it takes the person you know and transform them to someone nigh unrecognizable. However, as much as I can appreciate, and even would enjoy a more mental health aspect (being a counseling grad student) but I think it could have used more explanation.

I agree with the theory that the life is slowly being drained from her, and it certainly lends more weight to the impact of the Dark Side of the Force. It just feels a bit too rushed as presented in the film.
 
I don't buy it as an explanation in this instance, but postpartum depression is a real thing (as is PTSD and a number of other mental conditions that have real physical effects) that can render a person unable to care for their children, so the existence parental instincts alone cannot refute the notion.
I understand that, but the way it was presented in the movie was still annoying. If they had given us a deeper explanation it would have been nice.
For me the key phrase is: "Medically, she's completely healthy. For reasons we can't explain, we are losing her....We don't know why."
I tend to think that this suggests something else is going on, hence the theory that she's not loosing the will to live so much as it's being drained out of her through the force. That or a combination of it and giving her life force to the twins to protect them from the very same effect.
Again, there is not enough dealing with her death to really tell if something like that was going on.
It just felt me like she was supposed to be dead, but Lucas couldn't come up with a good way to kill her, so he just wrote her off with that one quick line. I just thought the character deserved better.
 
Yes, that's exactly right! Windu didn't have a sense of purpose on his own, Lucas just needed Mace to know something, to be aware of something, so he had to be on hand, often times, with nothing to do, but awkwardly connect certain dots, by his mere presence, alone.


So, you see why I think switching up his role to one of a mentor to Obi-Wan would make a difference? I think doing that would alleviate many problems with the character and would give him more purpose. Qui-Gon dies far too soon, for one thing. If you carry the mentor role throughout the trilogy, up to the encounter in RotS, I think you have something more of an impact, and gives weight to Anakin's fall to the dark side, in showing that there really is nothing standing in his way anymore. Then by that time, Obi-Wan is ready to avenge his mentor's death by fighting to stop Anakin. It would have made things more exciting.

I agree that Liam Neeson was good in the role, but I still felt something was off, but maybe that's Lucas again. Well, Lucas was never that great of a director to begin with. I think he was always best at coming up with ideas, but not so great at expressing them via the lens.
 
Because a droid can measure such things?



So you're doubling down on a misguided assumption?
Would you care to offer other evidence on screen? Or should I just fill in plot holes with my own concrete? Which, I normally don't have a problem with, but such a concept of draining another's life energy is not something presented on screen. So, on what basis should I make this conclusion?
 
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Indeed, this is correct. I'm asking what conclusion I should make? Because, the basics of biology and instincts for protecting young typically factor in when ladies have children, barring mental health problems. Which, I could see Padme having some clinical depression with Anakin turning to the dark side, but that would still be a medical problem.
 
Just to be clear: I'm not saying that the theory that Vader or Sidious drained her life force to keep Vader alive is either obvious nor the only possibility. It could just be bad writing. For me it's just a theory that happens to be supported by some of the imagery and editing choices in the scene and it has just the right feeling of myth making about it.

Again, there is not enough dealing with her death to really tell if something like that was going on.
It just felt me like she was supposed to be dead, but Lucas couldn't come up with a good way to kill her, so he just wrote her off with that one quick line. I just thought the character deserved better.

You'll get no argument from me on that last point.

That said, Lucas has a very particular way of telling stories that's taken me several decades to really get a handle on. He's a visual storyteller. The process of writing doesn't come easily to him and he knows he's not very good at it. He's most at home behind the lense and in the editing bay.
With that in mind I've found if one wants to really see what he wants to say, it's often more illuminating to ignore the words and the performances and just focus on the images. The composition of the shots, the pacing and editing beats. There's a lot more between the lines in these films than most people give them credit.

It also helps to remember that the intended genre isn't science fiction, it's a fairy tale. A fantasy myth that happens to take place in space.
So when you look back at the dual birthing scene, try doing so with an eye towards the mythic. Note how she cries out every time he feels pain. How she gives of herself as he is locked away within himself. How as he takes his first breath, she takes her last. How her last words were of him and his first were of her. None of these things are a coincidence, or just done for shallow poignancy. This where you'll hear the voice of the director because that's his volcabulary.
 
Did they show both Padme giving birth and Vader getting the suit at the same time in the movie? All I can find of Youtube is the scenes by themselves.
 
Just to be clear: I'm not saying that the theory that Vader or Sidious drained her life force to keep Vader alive is either obvious nor the only possibility. It could just be bad writing. For me it's just a theory that happens to be supported by some of the imagery and editing choices in the scene and it has just the right feeling of myth making about it.



You'll get no argument from me on that last point.

That said, Lucas has a very particular way of telling stories that's taken me several decades to really get a handle on. He's a visual storyteller. The process of writing doesn't come easily to him and he knows he's not very good at it. He's most at home behind the lense and in the editing bay.
With that in mind I've found if one wants to really see what he wants to say, it's often more illuminating to ignore the words and the performances and just focus on the images. The composition of the shots, the pacing and editing beats. There's a lot more between the lines in these films than most people give them credit.

It also helps to remember that the intended genre isn't science fiction, it's a fairy tale. A fantasy myth that happens to take place in space.
So when you look back at the dual birthing scene, try doing so with an eye towards the mythic. Note how she cries out every time he feels pain. How she gives of herself as he is locked away within himself. How as he takes his first breath, she takes her last. How her last words were of him and his first were of her. None of these things are a coincidence, or just done for shallow poignancy. This where you'll hear the voice of the director because that's his volcabulary.
Thank you for painting a different perspective. It helps me appreciate how others can enjoy other films and provides me another point of view.

I will strongly support the idea that GL is a visual storyteller. There are several shots that are mirrored between the trilogies, and those are done deliberately. GL gets a bum wrap on the dialog, but the visuals are often his strongest talent. The PT is very pretty to look at, and much of the art and set design that didn't get used could still make for impressive space operatic/fantasy type world building.

There is a lot more craft to the visuals and I think I've began to appreciate that myth building as well. So, thank you :techman:
 
The one thing that explains a shitty script, is a shitty script writer.
Indeed! And The Prequel Trilogy offers damning evidence of George Lucas having received considerable (outside) help in crafting the scripted story of STAR WARS: A New Hope, in particular.
 
Did they show both Padme giving birth and Vader getting the suit at the same time in the movie? All I can find of Youtube is the scenes by themselves.

Yeah, it cut back and forth between his surgery and the birth and naming of the twins.

Indeed! And The Prequel Trilogy offers damning evidence of George Lucas having received considerable (outside) help in crafting the scripted story of STAR WARS: A New Hope, in particular.

I'd refer you to Rinzer's "making of" books to actually inform yourself on the topic, but I sense you'd much rather hold on to your comforting fallacies.
 
HA!!! "Holding onto my fallacy" .... Cleverrrrrrr ....!!!

Look, whatever this book's about you're referring to me, I don't need the whole Bible, just a couple of chapters. So Rinzer's saying what, now? That George Lucas had his shit together and made A New Hope a classic without outside intervention?
 
15131743833_78e1fdb5f7_o.jpg


.... Perhaps!

Mr. Dodge, let me axe you something, now, and tell me true: how did you picture the prequel era story -- before the prequels?
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top