How did you picture the prequel era/story before the prequels?

[Set Harth]

and feels she has no reason to live.

No such thing is established in the movie.

I liked how in the Original Trilogy, for the most part, at any rate, it looked like the Force was -- basically -- just believing in yourself.

It said it was an energy field.

Having faith that there's NOTHING you can't do ... no matter who are. And that's sweet, you know? That ... that's the kind of message to dish out to paying customers.

And also, of course, absolute nonsense. Then again, the customer is always right...

Now, it's all about bloodlines and horseshit like that.

It was all about bloodlines back in 1983, in the days of the holy Original Trilogy, 16 years before anyone had ever heard of midichlorians or Jar Jar.

 

[Logopolis]

I pictured a more militaristic Star Wars trilogy of films where we got to witness the rise of the Empire and the sowing seeds of the Rebel Alliance being planted in the first two films with both factions going head to head in what I envisaged to be the third episode. Essentially, I envisaged Rogue One.

 

[Ithekro]

It was all about bloodlines back in 1983, in the days of the holy Original Trilogy, 16 years before anyone had ever heard of midichlorians or Jar Jar.

Thought it was pointed out in The Phantom Menace, that midichlorians are in all living things, and Rogue One and some scrapped material from The Force Awakens shows that even those with lower counts can use (or be used by, I suppose) the Force.

 

[2takesfrakes]

^ Hey ... that's right!
So, how about them apples, Set Harth?

 

[Scotchy]

The way the ARC Troopers were depicted in the 2003 animated series was how I pictured things.

 

[Owain Taggart]

You know, I've had a thought. Given that Qui-Gon's role was a short one, dying in the first movie, and that Mace Windu's role was underused, I'd have given Qui-Gon's role to Windu, except for the dying part of course. Making Windu Obi-Wan's mentor would have added weight to his character and would have made his death and betrayal by Anakin in Revenge that much more profound. He'd see Anakin's slide into darkness and try to stop him to protect Obi-Wan, similar to how Obi-wan sacrifices himself to protect Luke.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Liam Neeson was pretty much the only thing that made Qui-Gon cool. He really handled the awkward dialogue and clichéd situations like they were Shakespeare. He makes The Phantom Menace, for me. He's frequently played mentors and father-figures throughout his career, though, and he really does bring that to the role. Sam Jackson, on the other hand, seems to be uncomfortable, most of the time.

I have no idea why, but it may just be because he was so underused and finding himself in blue and green rooms with nothing in them was probably not a plus, either. Most of what Mace Windu had to say lacked any real substance, to begin with. At least with the original trilogy, Lucas didn't have to tell Harrison Ford, "OK, imagine this blue room is really a hangar bay, and over here, where this blue ramp is, that's where the Falcon's parked at." Having entire sets and props made all of the difference, I'm sure ...

 

[Set Harth]

Thought it was pointed out in The Phantom Menace, that midichlorians are in all living things

"It's an energy field created by all living things." (ANH,1977)

Yet it was also pointed out that the Jedi test midichlorian counts. Kind of pointless, if everyone can use the Force equally. And that those whose counts come out a certain way are "identified early" if born in the Republic. Identified as what, I wonder?

When Luke's trying to explain to Leia that she has Force potential, for some reason he doesn't make his case via the argument "You can use the Force because you're a living thing". Rather, his argument is "You can use the Force because you're related to me." It's kind of like how in TPM, at the point where Qui-Gon is figuring out that Anakin has "special powers", his immediate reaction isn't to smack his forehead and go, "Well, duh, of course he does! After all, he's a living thing!" His immediate reaction is to ask who his father was.

and Rogue One and some scrapped material from The Force Awakens shows that even those with lower counts can use (or be used by, I suppose) the Force.

No one uses the Force at Jedi level in Rogue One besides a certain notorious ex-Jedi. And no one else even demonstrates Force attunement except for one guy. I'm not sure what relevance "scrapped material" has, but it stands to reason that Snoke's insistence on stopping "the last Jedi" and the comments about Rey's strength are effectively meaningless if in fact everyone else in the galaxy has the same potential... and the same goes for various TESB comments about Luke made by Kenobi, Vader and Palpatine. These things only tend to highlight the difference between certain characters and everyone else.

 

[Ithekro]

"I am one with the Force, the Force is one with me" This may not be Force powers, but the Force working anyway.

Add to this Mas supposedly having low level Force powers. Not Jedi level, but still something after a thousand years.

 

[fireproof78]

No such thing is established in the movie.

Then why did she die? Because the medical droids could find no medical reason for her death.

You know, I've had a thought. Given that Qui-Gon's role was a short one, dying in the first movie, and that Mace Windu's role was underused, I'd have given Qui-Gon's role to Windu, except for the dying part of course. Making Windu Obi-Wan's mentor would have added weight to his character and would have made his death and betrayal by Anakin in Revenge that much more profound. He'd see Anakin's slide into darkness and try to stop him to protect Obi-Wan, similar to how Obi-wan sacrifices himself to protect Luke.

I kind of like this idea. I agree that Qui-Gon was underused and his death could have carried more punch.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Having entire sets and props made all of the difference, I'm sure ...

Oh yes, I'm sure. The entire trilogy was more or less a green-screen playground, given how experimental everything was in making everything digital. I think that any faults with the script were more pronounced due to this. And there was less of the physical to distract us. But even then, I don't think his acting was any worse than anything else found in the OT. Fleshing his character out more and giving him more of a role would have improved him. As it was, the character was underused and seemed to just appear and stand around whenever the script needed him.

 

[B.J.]

"I am one with the Force, the Force is one with me" This may not be Force powers, but the Force working anyway.

Maybe. Pretty sure though that it's intentionally vague whether it is or is not the Force working in that scene. (My own opinion: He was damn lucky. For a minute.)

 

[Set Harth]

"And then... tragedy struck."

 

[fireproof78]

Maybe. Pretty sure though that it's intentionally vague whether it is or is not the Force working in that scene. (My own opinion: He was damn lucky. For a minute.)

 

[JD]

However poorly she was developed in the PT (and I have issues with how she was used even in TPM) the fact is just being Luke & Leia's mother makes her fate very relevant and having her die off screen between the trilogies in unspecified circumstances would be really bad storytelling. For that alone they had to kill her off in RotS.
Of course that's not to say that the twins *had* to be born in the last 10 mins of that movie, but to do otherwise would necessitate a drastic restructuring of not only that movie, but probably the two before it. So by the time they got around to RotS the dye was already cast.

I agree. Padme's death was handled horribly, the idea that she would just give up like that was ridiculous, especially when she had just given birth to twins. I do think we needed to tie up her story though, either by killing her off or by getting her out of the picture. Killing her off was the best way to go since it was a quick easy explanation for why she wasn't raising the twins. Even if her story wasn't handled all that well at times, she was still a pretty important part of the whole saga, and I think it would have been pretty crappy if they had just killed her offscreen.

 

[Reverend]

For those who are still confused: nowhere is it said that midichlorians create the force (at least no more than any other living thing.) They're merely a conduit through which the force can communicate and since midichlorians exist in the cells of all living things, that conduit is always there for everyone, whether they listen to it or not.
All having a high midichlorian count means is that a person is naturally gifted in begin able to more easily feel and wield the force. That's it.

For the average person, it's certainly *much* more difficult to do what Jedi do but not impossible given enough time, willingness and dedicated training.
If instead of living a life of moisture farming and irascible grumpiness, Owen Lars had spent his entire life training and meditating atop a lonely mountain hermitage, he'd also be able to feel the force, gain insights and maybe even perform the odd physics defying feat of wizardry--Indeed, this is probably how the Jedi first got started--Luke on the other hand apparently managed to pick it up in a long weekend of hands-on instruction, because he's naturally gifted.

It's no different than any other kind of gift really and it can only take you so far. If a person born with an innate aptitude for music never bothered to practice, then they'd make a lousy musician compared to the person who worked and struggled and practised at it their whole lives to be as good as they can possibly be.

Maybe. Pretty sure though that it's intentionally vague whether it is or is not the Force working in that scene. (My own opinion: He was damn lucky. For a minute.)

The vagueness was kind of the point since for people like Baze and Chirrut who are not as naturally gifted in feeling the force as Jedi (yes, because midichlorians), it has to be an act of faith. Chirrut didn't *know* the force was with him, but he *believed* it and that faith was rewarded.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Oh yes, I'm sure. The entire trilogy was more or less a green-screen playground, given how experimental everything was in making everything digital. I think that any faults with the script were more pronounced due to this. And there was less of the physical to distract us. But even then, I don't think his acting was any worse than anything else found in the OT. Fleshing his character out more and giving him more of a role would have improved him. As it was, the character was underused and seemed to just appear and stand around whenever the script needed him.

Yes, that's exactly right! Windu didn't have a sense of purpose on his own, Lucas just needed Mace to know something, to be aware of something, so he had to be on hand, often times, with nothing to do, but awkwardly connect certain dots, by his mere presence, alone.

And everything on Geonosis is so lame, except for some of the clone battles, where the Jedi aren't actually in it. A lot of it looked videogamey, though, too. But, oh! Mace is there to chop Jango's head off, so we know he's supposed to be cool! Anything actiony that Windu does seems so forced. And the only people he really gets to intimidate otherwise, with his lightsabre are the two most elderly members of the cast, Count Dooku and the Chancellor.

I had to laugh out loud, when I went to see RotS in the cinema, and Annie chops Windu's hands off. When Dooku got his hands chopped off, he barely grunted ... but Mace is screaming like a complete and total pussy, until Palpatine uses his lightning bolts to grab a hold of him and fling him out the window like a water balloon. Even now, I find the whole thing unintentionally funny. Especially Palpatine's corkscrew spin as he's about to dispatch Mace Windu's posse. What happened to George Lucas? You know? How did it come to this? You'd think the guy had never made a movie, before. The incompetent directing, the banal dialogue, the awkward setups ...

 

[Set Harth]

Padme's death was handled horribly, the idea that she would just give up like that was ridiculous, especially when she had just given birth to twins.

Not at all ridiculous. You act like it was supposed to be a conscious decision.

I had to laugh out loud, when I went to see RotS in the cinema, and Annie chops Windu's hands off.

Hands?

 

[2takesfrakes]

Uh-oh ... what?
Why the question mark on "hands"? "A" hand, maybe ... singular?

 

[psCargile]

I expected IG-88, instead we got . . . (deep sigh) roger roger.

I expected Anakin's fall to have weighty substance, like the reverse choice of the Emperor's temptation of Luke, instead we got "I want to save Padme from death because of a nightmare I had."