Or other aliens with a completely different brain structure.
Thinking at Kayshon in Lower Decks for example.
Thinking at Kayshon in Lower Decks for example.
How did the Tamarians learn to talk in Federation standard?
- Thread starter Unimatrix Q
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How did Standard speakers learn to speak Tamarian? Trial and error, tech and reasoning.
To build an understanding of their language would be hard if you didn't know what happened at these places and times they referenced, though you could deduce it by examining the situation they were comparing their stories to, and seeing how they emote in relation to it. (If they say, "Aliga, his head in his hands", it could refer to someone in despair, or with a headache, or having one's literal head between one's hands while lying in a coffin after being beheaded) Although the same picture that makes someone happy may make another upset, depending on what their opinion is of the story.
I saw something (I think on Twitter) that essentially said the Tamarians speak in memes.
To build an understanding of their language would be hard if you didn't know what happened at these places and times they referenced, though you could deduce it by examining the situation they were comparing their stories to, and seeing how they emote in relation to it. (If they say, "Aliga, his head in his hands", it could refer to someone in despair, or with a headache, or having one's literal head between one's hands while lying in a coffin after being beheaded) Although the same picture that makes someone happy may make another upset, depending on what their opinion is of the story.
I saw something (I think on Twitter) that essentially said the Tamarians speak in memes.
Kira at Bashi. Temba, his arms wide.
Yeah, it's simply memes, but i'm going with @Christopher's concept of the Tamarian's being alien aliens here. From his short story Friends with the Sparrows.
How can you teach a being that experiences the universe completely different than you to really understand your own way of being and what you say and mean, without relying on technical gadgets?
So that the person or entity doesn't just parrot phrases for different situations without really understanding you at all, but really can communicate with you.
Osaki and Branden on the rooftop. The turtles with Splinter.
Even some episode titles which are literary/Latin quotes hint at the plot by virtue of their original context. So Trek speaks meta-Tamarian.
Darmok still on the ocean.
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Kayshon seemed to really understand the others and seemed to really speak in Federation Standard. Otherwise there wouldn't have been any relapses from time to time.
Dathon, shaking his head in resigned frustration: "C.J. in the alleyway."
In the short story "Friends with the Sparrows", although not canon, there were biological reasons like the tamarian brain working very differently than that of most other species and them perceiving everything unlike others for their language being so different.
If this is still true in canon, how would they overcome this issue and learn to really talk in Federation Standard, without help of the UT, like it was implied for Kayshon?
If this is still true in canon, how would they overcome this issue and learn to really talk in Federation Standard, without help of the UT, like it was implied for Kayshon?
The universal translator spat out, e.g. "Darmok and Jalad on the ocean." The UT was incapable of translating Tamarian, at least at the start of the OG episode.
Presumably, a Hoshi-type linguist went and hung out with them to determine all their idioms and metaphors and made a seminal update to the Federation universal translator. Or, alternatively maybe Tamarians think other types of languages are annoying and impersonal and they generally don't bother with them.
I don't know exactly why but i have more trouble imagining the Tamarians learning to understand and speak english than us learning their language.
Despite them being apparently more technological advanced than the Federation during "Darmok".
They wouldn't have to if the universal translator was updated with their language. (But I do have difficulty believing a language like that could receive other languages in translation very well. The writers must have gotten super high when they thought of this language). I dislike the execution of the UTC but I generally figure most federation citizens just use the UTC and don't need to learn another language unless they want to.
It's hard to figure out sometimes what aspect of the story is being referenced. Is it the way someone stood, who fought who, what maneuver was used, how someone felt when X happened, or what? (as they note in the episode)
Yeah, but there are probably still a lot of people like Hoshi, Saru, Uhura and likely Kayshon who really learn other languages and don't rely only on the UT.
In Kayshon's case, i think the relapses into Tamarian wouldn't happen if everything he said was simply translated.
I got the impression that Kayshon just learned English but sometimes slips into his native language because there isn't an English word or phrase for it, it's a swear, or he just slipped up. A lot of non-native language speakers do it.
Picard would occasionally say French words, Kayshon's are just different.
Picard would occasionally say French words, Kayshon's are just different.
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