Interesting. One thing that jumps out at me is that most of OPEC seems to have become part of the Khanate -- is there any significance in that?
How Did Earth Get United?
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Interesting. One thing that jumps out at me is that most of OPEC seems to have become part of the Khanate -- is there any significance in that?
Now wait just a damned minute! Are you telling me that Deval Frakking Patrick has command of a navy? That's about the scariest proposition I have ever heard! And I live in Massachusetts!
Yep! Well, sort of. The Massachusetts State Navy was never officially disbanded; its ships were just folded into the United States Navy. But the legal entity still exists on paper, and still has its own flag. It just doesn't have any, y'know. Ships. Or ports. Or officers. Or enlisted men. Or anyone working for it.
But it still legally exists, and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts retains the right to actually raise its navy any time it wants. Similarly, the State of Ohio maintains the Ohio Naval Militia, which remains under the exclusive jurisdiction of the Governor; as part of the Ohio State Defense Forces, it can never be called into federal service.
I know that the European Hegemony is reference in a TNG episode somewhere, but I honestly cant see it becoming one because the EU can barely control the actions of it member states let alone influence the actions of others.
The EU is more of a cleverly controlled market than anything else ... the Ferengi would be so proud
Umm, the United States had, what, 33 states immediately after the previous round of civil war. Why would things be different this time around?
Sloane's Montana doesn't look as if it's among the winners anyway, nor is it associated with the United States through symbology. The closest thing we catch is the old USAF roundel on the side of the Phoenix, without any data on whether it remains relevant to the current ownership.
To nitpick, what "obvious Chinese influence"? There's one guy there in silken robes holding a staff, and another holding a bell, who look Chinese. They are essentially the gopher boys for the court. Should we believe that the British Indian Army was run by Indians because Gunga Din served in it?
The judge with his perhaps British-style robes and lion-motif throne is very much Caucasian, even though Q could assume any shape he wanted. His power comes from distinctly Caucasian armed guards, of whom one even has a prominent red beard. None of the spectators look Chinese, either.
And writer intent plus a mint candy on the pillow is worth the candy. There's no China in ST:FC.
Good point, my mistake. (Then again, where does Picard get ECON from? What does he know or remember about WWIII? Why does he pick ECON as "the faction he is not with"?)
Timo Saloniemi
Now wait just a damned minute! Are you telling me that Deval Frakking Patrick has command of a navy? That's about the scariest proposition I have ever heard! And I live in Massachusetts!
Yep! Well, sort of. The Massachusetts State Navy was never officially disbanded; its ships were just folded into the United States Navy. But the legal entity still exists on paper, and still has its own flag. It just doesn't have any, y'know. Ships. Or ports. Or officers. Or enlisted men. Or anyone working for it.
But it still legally exists, and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts retains the right to actually raise its navy any time it wants. Similarly, the State of Ohio maintains the Ohio Naval Militia, which remains under the exclusive jurisdiction of the Governor; as part of the Ohio State Defense Forces, it can never be called into federal service.
Fascinating!
Thanks Sci. Very interesting stuff.
Great point! This occurrance probably played a fairly substanial role in the unification of the Earth. As per TNG and Voyager some groups of American Indians did this. My guess would be that many of the fundamentalists of the major Earth religions probably did so as well which would partially explain why religion seems to have such a limited presence on Earth in the 24th century.
...Even though they generally portray themselves as such.
And of course such portrayal becomes all the easier when one moves to an interstellar colony where the population is small, within easy reach, and probably of a rather uniform persuasion to begin with. I could see the attraction of moving off Earth for would-be spiritual leaders and political hopefuls: a chance to work with a "physical" followership of manageable size again, rather than be drowned in the vastness of a global (or larger) virtually connected populance, such as must exist on Earth.
Timo Saloniemi
And of course such portrayal becomes all the easier when one moves to an interstellar colony where the population is small, within easy reach, and probably of a rather uniform persuasion to begin with. I could see the attraction of moving off Earth for would-be spiritual leaders and political hopefuls: a chance to work with a "physical" followership of manageable size again, rather than be drowned in the vastness of a global (or larger) virtually connected populance, such as must exist on Earth.
Timo Saloniemi
Man, it's been a long time since I posted in a Trek thread. I skimmed, I didn't see mention of this, so I'll offer it.
I don't remember how this fits into the timeline. But it seems to me, there's one single Trek technology that would pretty easily explain the whole thing. The replicator.
Think about it. Really. Forget about the logical improbabilities of such a device, forget about its surreality for a moment and let's do a thought experiment. Suppose for a moment that somebody invented a device that, with very limited energy input, could pretty much come up with any material you could possibly require. Food. Clothing. Building materials. Fuel. And a hell of a lot more.
Would war start to seem outdated? I mean, plenty of wars have religious and or racial and or cultural garnishes, but almost all of them come down to resource inequity in one way or another.
And think about capitalism for a moment. Would it still make sense? Provided you could use a replicator to create another replicator, what would happen to the haves and the have nots?
It's a silly little invention that isn't much mentioned. But I think its invention in this universe would have sparked a very different worldview. One where economics and national boundaries stopped making sense. Something that would pretty much level the playing field for humanity. And create a civilization where just kicking around as a starship captain without pay would actually make a lick of sense.
I don't remember how this fits into the timeline. But it seems to me, there's one single Trek technology that would pretty easily explain the whole thing. The replicator.
Think about it. Really. Forget about the logical improbabilities of such a device, forget about its surreality for a moment and let's do a thought experiment. Suppose for a moment that somebody invented a device that, with very limited energy input, could pretty much come up with any material you could possibly require. Food. Clothing. Building materials. Fuel. And a hell of a lot more.
Would war start to seem outdated? I mean, plenty of wars have religious and or racial and or cultural garnishes, but almost all of them come down to resource inequity in one way or another.
And think about capitalism for a moment. Would it still make sense? Provided you could use a replicator to create another replicator, what would happen to the haves and the have nots?
It's a silly little invention that isn't much mentioned. But I think its invention in this universe would have sparked a very different worldview. One where economics and national boundaries stopped making sense. Something that would pretty much level the playing field for humanity. And create a civilization where just kicking around as a starship captain without pay would actually make a lick of sense.
Except that the replicator wasn't invented until the 24th Century. Earth was unified by 2150. So obviously something that wasn't invented until two hundred years later can't be said to have affected Earth's political evolution.
Replicators that are available to private citizens would be the key. Capt. Kirk had stated in one episode that the Enterprise could produce diamonds and other precious minerals(Requiem for Methuselah). In the 22nd Century, Capt. Archer joked about food synthesizers. The key does seem to be universal availability of resources along with the means to easily acquire them.
The dictatorships of the 24th century seem to have the same technology but it is controlled by the governments. Replicators can't reproduce everything. They cannot produce dilithium or latinum.
There would be those who would have one of a kind copyrighted items that couldn't be replicated by law as well. Intellectual property and patents may be protected items.
The dictatorships of the 24th century seem to have the same technology but it is controlled by the governments. Replicators can't reproduce everything. They cannot produce dilithium or latinum.
There would be those who would have one of a kind copyrighted items that couldn't be replicated by law as well. Intellectual property and patents may be protected items.
To nitpick, it has never been said that there would exist a substance or an item that cannot be replicated.
There is merely indirect evidence of the following:
-It's either bad manners/illegal or then prohibitively expensive to replicate gold-pressed latinum, so the substance is a handy form of cash.
-It's either prohibitively slow or expensive to replicate dilithium, photon torpedoes or shuttlecraft during combat, so a starship may suffer a temporary shortage of those.
-It's either prohibitively slow or expensive or ethically unwelcome to replicate living creatures, so we never quite see this happen, even though we do see components of living creatures replicated.
By "expensive" above, I mean "costs more than it gives in return", either in terms of abstract money or in simple terms of energy. Never is there evidence that technology would be unable to cope - at most there is evidence that the ordinary food replicator or the machinery available aboard a starship may not be up to the task within the time and resources allotted.
Within the above limitations, a replicator could slip right in to a classic capitalist economy without collapsing the system's theoretical foundations. It would certainly wreak havoc with the markets for a while, though, probably massively reducing the price of consumer goods.
Timo Saloniemi
As I said, I'm not completely up on the timeline. But before there were replicators on the show, there were other similar devices. TOS had 'em. Enterprise had whatever the hell they had on that show. Perhaps not the magically versitile technology of replication, but something similar.
In any case, that sort of device, in any of its forms, would certainly turn capitalism and nationalism on its end. I would think, anyway.
In any case, that sort of device, in any of its forms, would certainly turn capitalism and nationalism on its end. I would think, anyway.
I don't think replicators would be the magical cure-all for every one of society's ills. For several reasons, such as:
- Replicators themselves must be maintained. They require energy to operate. They can break down if not properly maintained, and can also cause massive havoc if sabotaged.
- Not everybody wants replicators. Picard's brother refused to allow one in his family's home. Robert and his family had no use for replicators whatsoever, and yet still made a good living selling Chateau Picard wine...
- There really are some things that can't be replicated. Dilithium, for one.
- Replicators themselves must be maintained. They require energy to operate. They can break down if not properly maintained, and can also cause massive havoc if sabotaged.
- Not everybody wants replicators. Picard's brother refused to allow one in his family's home. Robert and his family had no use for replicators whatsoever, and yet still made a good living selling Chateau Picard wine...
- There really are some things that can't be replicated. Dilithium, for one.
Not really. ENT had what was referred to as a "protein resequencer;" the implication seems to be that it could recompose existing proteins into new forms, but it certainly couldn't just generate new proteins out of constituent atoms the way a replicator can. TOS had what were just referred to as food slots -- the implication at the time was that food was simply stored in the ship and automatically delivered to whatever slot had had someone order something from. Either way, while those technologies would certainly go a long way in feeding populations, they wouldn't eliminate the concept of scarcity, and are considerably less versatile than replicators.
We can probably infer, too, that the United States won the war, based on two things: Hoshi's and T'Pol's discussion of the Vulcans having opened diplomatic relations with the United States, rather than with humans as a whole (did T'Pol say something about it being teh most powerful nation-state? I don't recall), and a comparison of known conditions in the US between 2363 and the late 2370s versus the post-atomic horror in East Asia.
That the United States continued to add states also suggests that it came out of the war better than most. Ignoring real-world reasons, the widespread appearance of American accents (and various British accents to a lesser extent) - nevermind an apparent ethnic balance remarkably similar to that of the US or Britain - too indicate at the very least extensive success of those two parts of the world in the aftermath of the war, especially given the significant lack of accents especially, but also personnel from countries one might assume part of the Eastern Coalition. (I'd posit, too, that Russia was part of the US faction, based on how much we've seen of its citizens - and that several have spoken with at least theoretical Russian accents.)
Lilly first brings up ECON, btw, during the Borg bombardment of the missile camp near Bozeman.
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