How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

[RyuRoots]

he Niners can't take it after a few months.

Because it's being perpetuated by YOU. And ONLY YOU. Having one person whining about a nonexistent problem tends to irk people. And you'll have to do better than "Nuh uh! I'm right! Because I am!" defenses if you want to be taken seriously. Don't get me wrong, it's kind of hilariously entertaining watching your logical fallacies/circular arguments though. So don't stop on my account.

 

[StarryEyed]

If Sisko took out the Borg in a runabout the Niners would be thrilled over him defeating an "inferior TNG creation" because of how it shows Ds9 characters are inherently more powerful and cooler than anyone else, and maybe give some other BS over how the Prophets were helping him.

No, that is absolutely ridiculous. If DS9 had episodes like that, there wouldn't be too many "Niners."

I haven't heard anyone think that the DS9 characters are more powerful and cooler than TNG characters. In fact, one of the early episodes had Q taunting that "Picard and his crew would have had this figured out hours ago." He's probably right. Picard is brilliant and way more experienced than Sisko. That's why he's commanding the Federation flagship. Data is way smarter than Dax. I doubt many Niners would dispute that.

One of the attractions of DS9 (for me anyway) was that the characters were much more relatable. Sisko seemed much more human than any previous captain. All the characters did.

 

[Anwar]

he Niners can't take it after a few months.

Because it's being perpetuated by YOU. And ONLY YOU. Having one person whining about a nonexistent problem tends to irk people. And you'll have to do better than "Nuh uh! I'm right! Because I am!" defenses if you want to be taken seriously. Don't get me wrong, it's kind of hilariously entertaining watching your logical fallacies/circular arguments though. So don't stop on my account.

In response to 14 years of VOY hate, my own response is rather tame. And it's because I'm on DS9's case that irks people, no one would care if I did this to ENT. And seeing how VOY-bashing was often for the stupidest things, Niners have no right to tell me how to be taken seriously.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Believe me, I've tried. I'm always on the look-out for the nicer Niners, but after 14 years I reviewed all my VOY-hater experiences and just decided to stop just taking it and to speak back for once.

Guess that makes the VOY fans the more tolerant ones, we put up with cruel criticisms for 14 years but the Niners can't take it after a few months.

You're missing the fact that aside from a few trolls, we have not hurt you.

And yet you decided to discard all of that data and treat us ALL, whether we deserve it or not, like the people that you believe have hurt you. That is indiscriminate retribution, pure and simple, no better than the Cardassian archons simply deciding they don't like someone, and beginning a trial with the statement that the "defendant" is guilty, the sentence is death, and only THEN does the trial begin.

It is punishment not because of what people have done, but what you think they MIGHT do...precrime, thoughtcrime. There is no justice in that.

I can take criticisms of the show. We criticize it ourselves. When someone does a good job of articulating their positions as to why something went wrong, without venturing into personal attack territory, I respect that whether I agree with it or not. What I do not respect is this arbitrary Cardassian-tribunal style "justice" that decides to punish simply because one feels like it.

 

[RyuRoots]

he Niners can't take it after a few months.

Because it's being perpetuated by YOU. And ONLY YOU. Having one person whining about a nonexistent problem tends to irk people. And you'll have to do better than "Nuh uh! I'm right! Because I am!" defenses if you want to be taken seriously. Don't get me wrong, it's kind of hilariously entertaining watching your logical fallacies/circular arguments though. So don't stop on my account.

In response to 14 years of VOY hate, my own response is rather tame. And it's because I'm on DS9's case that irks people, no one would care if I did this to ENT. And seeing how VOY-bashing was often for the stupidest things, Niners have no right to tell me how to be taken seriously.

So because you've met DS9 fans that weren't nice people before, you piss and moan HERE about it every time a DS9 fan doesn't love something about VOY. So yeah, I think we do, considering what a petulant child you're being.

Again, not that it isn't hilarious to watch you make as much sense as a soup sandwich every time you bring this up.

 

[Anwar]

So because you've met DS9 fans that weren't nice people before, you piss and moan HERE about it every time a DS9 fan doesn't love something about VOY.

What can I say, 14 years of not saying anything eroded my tolerance for Niners.

 

[Saito S]

Oh dear. I didn't think it was possible for you to simply continue to get more and more deranged, before my very eyes, but here we are.

Or this notion that if you took all the plots, characters, ideas, concepts, etc. that have been heavily criticized in Voyager, and just reversed them with all the plots, characters, ideas, concepts, etc. that have been heavily praised in DS9, that we would all still LOVE DS9 just for being DS9 and HATE Voyager just for being Voyager? Do you HONESTLY believe that?

Yes.

... That's it!?
"Yes"?? That's all? No explanation, no arguing, no elaboration... just "Yes." So, to clarify then: if EVERYTHING in Voyager and DS9 were reversed, down to the last detail, and the only things that stayed the same were the names, we would all still love DS9 and hate Voyager. And if I sit here and tell you that such a thing isn't true of me, or of ANY other Trek fan I have known - online or off - EVER, well... I'm just lying, or mistaken somehow, or self-deluded, or whatever.

If this is what you really, TRULY believe... you may be well beyond all help, dude. That's not "double standard", that's just stupid. It's the most insanely stupid idea I've seen in ages. People DO NOT decide whether they like a television show or not the way you are describing. No matter how much you want it to be true, it just isn't.

They exist, either now or in the past. I scare off a lot of them or drove them underground. If that makes me deranged I suppose the whole lot of you are deranged for attacking me repeatedly.

Now wait a minute here... "now or in the past"?
Putting aside the notion that there were scores of "haters" that you simply scared away or drove underground (I laughed, by the way, when I read that part)... so you are admitting that THERE MAY NOT EVEN BE ANY NOW?? "They exist, either now or in the past." You mean you've been on this crusade and you DON'T EVEN KNOW FOR SURE??

"Sir, we just completed the bombing runs. The entire structure is in ruins."
"So, the terrorist leaders are dead then."
"Well, in all likelihood. There were a bunch of people in there, that much we know for certain, and it seems likely that some of the terrorist leaders were there, at one point at least. So if we're lucky, some of the people killed in there when we obliterated the place WERE the terrorist leaders."
"........."

And you really are simply an idiot if you honestly believe that. If Sisko took on the Borg with runabouts, I would be every bit as irritated. If Voyager had an epic battle like in Sacrifice of Angels, it would be EVERY bit as awesome.

If Sisko took out the Borg in a runabout the Niners would be thrilled over him defeating an "inferior TNG creation" because of how it shows Ds9 characters are inherently more powerful and cooler than anyone else, and maybe give some other BS over how the Prophets were helping him.
If VOY had a battle like that, the haters would just complain it was dumb for them to get involved in some local war, or that forming a delta federation would violate the PD and make them all traitors.

No we wouldn't! We would be -- OH, wait....

You can admit that if stuff from VOY was on DS9 you wouldn't have any problems with any of it, while the well-liked stuff from DS9 would be on VOY and despised for being on VOY.

Anwar knows us Niners better than we know OURSELVES! Silly me, for forgetting this!

Believe me, I've tried. I'm always on the look-out for the nicer Niners

That is the biggest load of crap you have deposited yet.

So because you've met DS9 fans that weren't nice people before, you piss and moan HERE about it every time a DS9 fan doesn't love something about VOY.

What can I say, 14 years of not saying anything eroded my tolerance for Niners.

Wait, what? So, uh... RyuRoots called it right, then? You have - at times - met some truly awful DS9 fans, who loved everything about their show and hated the fact that Voyager exists (and NO ONE has once said that such people don't exist anywhere in the world, mind you)... so you decided to come here and attack all the Niners here, even though we weren't even the ones who got you all riled up in the first place? Sound about right?

One last thing:

and I don't honestly believe you have either. And also funny how you can't name names anymore after the very few you provided turned out to not be cases.

I'll mention the folks at the RPG forums and stardestroyer.net if it shuts up that argument.

It IS funny how you named some names, which led to you looking MUCH worse in this situation than before, and now you can't name any more names. But... did you say stardestroyer.net?? THAT'S who your using as "evidence" that Niners are irrational and hate Voyager??
Putting aside that it's a separate forum and has nothing to do with TrekBBS...
Do you have any idea how many regulars there are on that site who HATE the entirety of the Trek franchise?? One of the core precepts upon which that website was FOUNDED was the gathering of as much "hard technical data" as they could find to prove that the Galactic Empire would crush the Federation in a war! That site owes its existence to the "Star Trek vs. Star Wars" debate!! THAT'S your reference?? OF COURSE they hate Voyager! OF COURSE they think DS9 (the only Trek to be darker and gritter and - later on - about a war) is the best one!!

At this point, all I can conclude is that you are the nuttiest, most batshit Trek fan I have ever met. Or the dumbest one, or some combination thereof. Or, this entire thing is one of the biggest, most elaborate examples of internet message board trolling EVER.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Soul of Saito--

In Anwar's defense, I will point out that he and I have had pretty good interactions most of the time.

The trouble with this is the following: to acknowledge that one of us is OK as an individual means having to examine all of us solely on the basis of our individual character and actions, not just because we're Niners. To maintain both positions at the same time--that I'm OK, and the group of fans to which I belong is not, is a position that requires doublethink: that is, the holding of two contradictory ideas simultaneously. One of the two positions has got to give way. I would like to hope it's the anger towards all Niners, but I don't see evidence of that so far. And that's what makes it hard to see things as I did before this "war" erupted: there's always the knowledge that someone in a position like mine is VERY likely to be turned on at any time. It may even happen as a result of my saying this. But the logic is what it is, I'm afraid.

 

[PSGarak]

Wrong. You've been warned about this behavior, and you're still doing it. As GodBen said, if you want to be banned, then fine. Your abuse of us is over. Period.

Because you don't like that I'm not standing for Niner abuse of VOY anymore, naturally.

Wrong again. It's because you're being an absolute jackass to people who have done jack shit to you. If you hate niners and DS9 that much, leave this fucking forum. Stop being what you claim to hate, and stop coming across as a complete fucking loony tune. We are sick of your shit. Nut up or shut up. Seriously.

 

[Jono]

I really don't know why you all bother responding to Anwar any more. He's already stated that all he wants to do is troll the DS9 forum, so if he isn't going to contribute to a topic honestly then ignore what he has to say. Plus there is always the "Notify the moderator" button next to his posts, hit that if his posts warrant it.

 

[Akiraprise]

Hey, keep this civil. This is directed at numerous people in here. You know who you are.

The jackass, retard, deranged loony, etc name calling is not going to fly. The one thing that was asked when this debate was started was to remain civil and not flame.

So, STOP IT.

-Akiraprise
*No official mod powers in the DS9 forum, but plenty of pull.*

 

[Cyke101]

I really don't know why you all bother responding to Anwar any more. He's already stated that all he wants to do is troll the DS9 forum,

Well, frankly, that's out and out against board rules and trolling is a bannable offense. PKTrekGirl and Akiraprise have pretty much said so in the other thread.

so if he isn't going to contribute to a topic honestly then ignore what he has to say. Plus there is always the "Notify the moderator" button next to his posts, hit that if his posts warrant it.

I'm guessing quite a few threads (as opposed to mere posts) warrant it, or else the mods wouldn't be so concentrated on this.

(Elsewhere, the combined Fed/Klingon fleet just blew up a shipyard )

 

[RyuRoots]

I really don't know why you all bother responding to Anwar any more. He's already stated that all he wants to do is troll the DS9 forum, so if he isn't going to contribute to a topic honestly then ignore what he has to say. Plus there is always the "Notify the moderator" button next to his posts, hit that if his posts warrant it.

's a good point, really. Don't really have a good answer other than bizarre fascination.

 

[Anwar]

... That's it!?
"Yes"?? That's all? No explanation, no arguing, no elaboration... just "Yes." So, to clarify then: if EVERYTHING in Voyager and DS9 were reversed, down to the last detail, and the only things that stayed the same were the names, we would all still love DS9 and hate Voyager.

Yes.

That's not "double standard", that's just stupid. It's the most insanely stupid idea I've seen in ages.

I agree, but that's the VOY hatred for you.

so you are admitting that THERE MAY NOT EVEN BE ANY NOW?? "They exist, either now or in the past." You mean you've been on this crusade and you DON'T EVEN KNOW FOR SURE??

No, I mean they haven't been posting as much since I decided to stop letting them get away with everything.

"Sir, we just completed the bombing runs. The entire structure is in ruins."
"So, the terrorist leaders are dead then."
"Well, in all likelihood. There were a bunch of people in there, that much we know for certain, and it seems likely that some of the terrorist leaders were there, at one point at least. So if we're lucky, some of the people killed in there when we obliterated the place WERE the terrorist leaders."
"........."

Hey, there was a chance of them being in there and likely the bombing would scare off any others who try to pull the same bull.

Wait, what? So, uh... RyuRoots called it right, then? You have - at times - met some truly awful DS9 fans, who loved everything about their show and hated the fact that Voyager exists

About right, yes.

At this point, all I can conclude is that you are the nuttiest, most batshit Trek fan I have ever met. Or the dumbest one, or some combination thereof.

Yep, that's what you get for being a VOY fan. Everything thinks you're nuts . Nice to see Niners are showing their true face.

Also funny how it is I've never resorted to name calling or declaring any Niners insane, yet I'M the one repeatedly called jackass or retard. Real mature ones, you Niners .

 

[TheGodBen]

Niners, Anwar has admitted to being a troll, do not feed him. If you find what he says objectionable there is a triangular red and white button you can press which is far more likely to get results than insulting him. He has already recieved his friendly warning in this thread, official warnings will follow so long as we keep calm and follow official channels.

 

[Saito S]

Alright...
First off, apologies to Akillaprise and PKTrekgirl if I have stepped over the line myself with the harsh words. In trying to be emphatic, I could have gotten carried away. In my defense, I'm sure it's easy to see why one would get frustrated, reading things that are so completely incorrect and insulting, yet are stated as if they are simple facts, over and over. That said, I stand by the content of everything I have posted 100%; I apologize for any name-calling or lack of civility on my part, but the points I was trying to get across still stand. Especially the parts about this belief you seem to have, Anwar, that when people say "I love DS9, but I still liked Voyager/TNG", or the assertions of some of us that NO, if everything about the two shows were reversed except the names, we wouldn't still love DS9 and hate VOY... you think we are wrong or lying or whatever, and that only you know what's really going on. It's incomprehensible how someone could really believe that.

But I'm backing off at this point. This will be my last post responding to Anwar in regards to this whole Niner/Voyager hater business. Here's Jonny! and TheGhoulBen make good points as far as reasons to not bother responding to Anwar anymore. I've said my piece, I don't regret doing so, though it did seem like none of it sunk in. No matter what I said, I couldn't get more than "Yes. I'm right because I'm right" in response. The laundry has been hung out to air dry for all to see, it's time for me to move on.

Anwar, I'm not gonna bother replying to you anymore on this subject. I'm not going to put you on ignore, because that's not my style (and my curiosity is simply too great), but this is it for direct replies. This whole thing has been (as RyuRoots put it) bizarrely fascinating, which is what kept me posting, even though somewhere in the back of my head, I sorta knew I wouldn't be able to get through to you. The fact that you STILL continue to reply to my posts with simple one-word answers ("Yes.") and baseless declarations that you are right simply because you are right - despite the mountains of hard, irrefutable evidence that you are wrong - leads me to conclude that continuing to argue with you is pointless. Perhaps it always was, but it was also weirdly entertaining; since that's no longer the case, it's time for me to stop. I really hope that you are, at some point, able to see what we've been saying, and able to find a way to stop pulling the universe down around you, before the weight of it all crushes you and you end up getting banned or something.

Good day to all.

 

[RyuRoots]

I was gonna make a bigger post, but Saito_S basically said what I was going to, if in more words than I was going to. That all basically applies to me, too. So I will do my best to follow the advice of

Feeding trolls is bad, mm'kay?

 

[TheGodBen]

Don't worry guys, I know how offensive Anwar's posts are and how you just want to call him out on his BS, and I'm certainly guilty of saying unfavourable things about him in the past, just ask the Voyager mods. But remember, something is being done about it now, and Anwar's decision to ignore PKTrekGirl's friendly warning will possibly cause official action to be taken against his account. Just have patience, and notify the moderators every time you see Anwar insulting Niners after being told to stop. Remember, just because he's breaking the rules doesn't give us licence to do the same.

See, I'm growing as a person.

 

[PSGarak]

Don't worry guys, I know how offensive Anwar's posts are and how you just want to call him out on his BS, and I'm certainly guilty of saying unfavourable things about him in the past, just ask the Voyager mods. But remember, something is being done about it now, and Anwar's decision to ignore PKTrekGirl's friendly warning will possibly cause official action to be taken against his account. Just have patience, and notify the moderators every time you see Anwar insulting Niners after being told to stop. Remember, just because he's breaking the rules doesn't give us licence to do the same.

See, I'm growing as a person.

Yep. Frankly, I don't buy into the whole passive aggressive crap of provoking people and then running behind board rules and trying to play victim when people respond, but that's between him and the mods now. Anything I have said has been extraordinarily mild for me, and I apologize for none of it. However, I will abide by board rules and handle this in the available channels. Far be it from me to try to stop someone from taking himself down in flames. I'd much rather just bring the marshmallows.

 

[kes7]

Yep, that's what you get for being a VOY fan. Everything thinks you're nuts . Nice to see Niners are showing their true face.

Sigh. I'm a VOY fan. One of the biggest VOY lovers on this board, probably. Yet, I've never been called crazy -- at least not for my VOY love, anyway.

I find it difficult to believe, at this point, that Anwar could possibly be serious about any of this. Surely this is just epic trolling. And if that's indeed what it is, I have to say ... well played. You're pretty damn good at it.