How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

[Bluesteel]

Don't blame me, I spoiled my ballot. Rather than ticking Yes or No I wrote:

I want to vote yes, but forcing us to vote again is undemocratic so I'm spoiling my ballot.

Yes, I realise that you don't care.

And in the run-up to the referendum I handed out Yes fliers while telling people to vote No in order to confuse people, until one of the Yes campaigners came over and took the fliers away from me.

Yeah the whole thing was just sad. I was watching tv interview of an old lady explaining that she will vote Yes because otherwise the economy will hit rock bottom. I just wanted to shout out. "Ignore the fat guy. He messed up the economy not the EU. We won't abandoned you."

The scaremongering by both sides really gets on my nerve and I don't even live there.

Technically Gerry Adams is also Irish. At the time of his birth the Irish constitution still claimed Northern Ireland as being part of the "national territory" and that all children born on the island of Ireland were granted Irish citizenship. The national territory part was removed via referendum in 1998 (as part of the Good Friday Agreement) and the citizenship part was was changed via referendum in 2004 to include that at least one of the parents has to be eligible for Irish citizenship too.

Basically, we're slowly changing our constitution to get rid of Gerry Adams.

So he's a Citizen of the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom and also an MP of the Northern Irish assembly and the UK Parliment. That man is dastardly. I have a feeling he would take part in the Republics politics if you guys didn't have such weird name like Oireachtas or Taoseach.

Go ahead and call me a DS9 hater, I stopped caring what the VOY Haters thought of me a long time ago.

Hey Anwar? Mate do you read what you actually write? I think it's time for you to walk away like a man. You are clearly losing here and not making any sense.

 

[Red Ranger]

I work at a call center so I'm VERY familiar with those kinds of people, thank you very much.

Want me to change? Then Niners will have to compromise and change as well, having to deal with the fact that there are people who are just fed up with them and their attitudes towards VOY. We're just going to all change.

You first, you wanker! -- RR

 

[PSGarak]

I work at a call center so I'm VERY familiar with those kinds of people, thank you very much.

Want me to change? Then Niners will have to compromise and change as well, having to deal with the fact that there are people who are just fed up with them and their attitudes towards VOY. We're just going to all change.

Wrong. You've been warned about this behavior, and you're still doing it. As GodBen said, if you want to be banned, then fine. Your abuse of us is over. Period.

 

[apenpaap]

Want me to change? Then Niners will have to compromise and change as well, having to deal with the fact that there are people who are just fed up with them and their attitudes towards VOY.

What Niners? You have been asked who these evil Niners you keep talking about are, and you haven't even been able to find a single one of them, dear.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

You mean that awful Lisbon Treaty, right? I am not Irish but I felt very sad to hear Ireland passed that steaming pile of crap. All filthy puns intended.

And Loki--be careful...you don't want to sound like the traitor Broca, do you? (Miss Taken Loyalties...)

Yeah. I loved the fact that after they voted No. Everybody started to care about a tiny little forgettable Island of the UK who most people stereotype has drunkards. Then spent more then a year scaring them to death about voting No again only to ignore them after they obliged to vote Yes. All though I agree with the Treaty and the need to strengthen the EU.

I just found the whole thing funny. Especially when Sinn Fien leader Gerry Adams (A British Citizen) came down South to argue against it twice.

The scare tactics--and also the fact that they did a whitewashing job in the press to hide exactly what kind of sacrifices of sovereignty the treaty involved completely ticked me off. I had a friend in Ireland the first time around who told me all about it and...ew. I just kept flashing back to Eddington's words, when I thought about what the EU was trying to do. The whole thing IS undemocratic, and disgusting.

 

[iguana_tonante]

And yes, I'm quite aware of the stupidity you can find out in the Net: I'm an Alien 3 fan and a Beast Machines defender too, so I have to put up with idiot Aliens fanboys and BMachs haters most of the time as well. It's the price you pay for not going along with what's popular.

The ones who need to suck it up are the Niners who can't accept that I exist.

Sooo... A lot of people doesn't share your opinion and therefore they are haters, bashers, and deviant fanboys, while you are a valiant hero that stand for truth, justice and the other stuff and thus your hate, bile and vile are totally justified. Mmmh... ok.

 

[TheGodBen]

I work at a call center so I'm VERY familiar with those kinds of people, thank you very much.

Ah, so now I understand why you're so miserable.

Want me to change? Then Niners will have to compromise and change as well, having to deal with the fact that there are people who are just fed up with them and their attitudes towards VOY. We're just going to all change.

What Niners? You named three Niners who were troublesome, one isn't a Niner and another was banned over a year ago. You have a problem with one person, and it is time for you to grow up and stop taking it out on the rest of us. If you refuse then you will start accumulating warnings very quickly.

So he's a Citizen of the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom and also an MP of the Northern Irish assembly and the UK Parliment. That man is dastardly. I have a feeling he would take part in the Republics politics if you guys didn't have such weird name like Oireachtas or Taoseach.

He does try to take part in the Republic's politics, but he's not very good at at. During the last election in 2007 many commentators were suggesting that Sinn Fein could make a breakthrough and take a dozen seats, until Gerry Adams decided to take part in a leaders debate and displayed much ignorance about politics here. Unsurprisingly, the breakthrough never happened.

 

[RyuRoots]

I work at a call center so I'm VERY familiar with those kinds of people, thank you very much.

Want me to change? Then Niners will have to compromise and change as well, having to deal with the fact that there are people who are just fed up with them and their attitudes towards VOY. We're just going to all change.

You first, you wanker! -- RR

What he said.

And AGAIN. You're full of crap, Anwar. Hasn't the fact that these horrible Niner/haters are people that only you can see and hear been well-established enough yet? We don't HAVE an attitude towards VOY! Some of us don't like it (I personally do), but no one does the BS you claim! Shut the hell up! You're trying to wage a forum war that no one else is participating in, nor wants to!

 

[Saito S]

Uh... wow. I guess the sentiment I posted in the other thread that this whole thing was "winding to a close" was a bit premature.

Bluesteel asked something that I've been wondering: do you READ what you write, Anwar? And also, at this point, I have to ask: do you read what anyone ELSE writes, Anwar?

You are wrong. Incorrect. In error. Mistaken. Or possibly just crazy, I'm really not sure. The point is, the people you are talking about DO NOT EXIST on this forum. Maybe they DID at one time, I don't know, but that's not the point. They don't exist NOW. You are attacking an entire fan group on the basis of what people who don't exist are(n't) doing. And you need to stop, or you are gonna end up getting banned. That's not a threat (not like I have the power to make that happen, obviously), it's a reality, as made clear by the mods.

At this point, your posts to the contrary basically consist of "No, you guys are wrong. The Niners are the ones at fault, not me, cause I'm right. Know how I know I'm right? It's because I'm right." When, in fact, "right" is about as far from where you are as Earth is from the center of the galaxy.

And seriously! DO you read some of things you write? Such as your claim that all those who think DS9 is the best (I do) not only hate Voyager for existing (I kinda like Voyager, myself), but also hate TNG (I love it), and LOVE TOS (I respect what it did for its time, and for being the first Trek, but I find the actual show to be mediocre to bad on the whole, with a few moments of greatness)? Or this notion that if you took all the plots, characters, ideas, concepts, etc. that have been heavily criticized in Voyager, and just reversed them with all the plots, characters, ideas, concepts, etc. that have been heavily praised in DS9, that we would all still LOVE DS9 just for being DS9 and HATE Voyager just for being Voyager? Do you HONESTLY believe that? Think about what that means for a moment. That means that the content of a TV show doesn't matter. Whether we will like a show or not has nothing to do with what that show is about, what the characters are like, how well-written it is, etc... No, the only thing that matters is what the show is called. Surely you see how ludicrous that sounds, don't you?

 

[kes7]

Anwar, which Niners have to change? And which VOY fans are with you on this? The only person I see whining about this is you, but you say "people are fed up." Which people?

-K7, huge VOY fan, and not fed up.

 

[Anwar]

Wrong. You've been warned about this behavior, and you're still doing it. As GodBen said, if you want to be banned, then fine. Your abuse of us is over. Period.

Because you don't like that I'm not standing for Niner abuse of VOY anymore, naturally.

What Niners? You named three Niners who were troublesome, one isn't a Niner and another was banned over a year ago. You have a problem with one person, and it is time for you to grow up and stop taking it out on the rest of us. If you refuse then you will start accumulating warnings very quickly.

There were others too, but I forgot their names and it was more of a general VOY hate than one specific guy doing it. I singled out those three or so because they were the ones I remembered best.

Funny how it's okay to gang up on one guy who fights back at the VOY haters but not okay to do the same for the guys who hate VOY. ANOTHER double standard.

And seriously! DO you read some of things you write? Such as your claim that all those who think DS9 is the best (I do) not only hate Voyager for existing

They do, VOY was their chance to destroy the trek formula and change the entire universe into your usual run-of-the-mill darkfest, and seeing that the people on VOY weren't doing that ruined their hopes. Also they think that since VOY wasn't DS9 part 2 it means DS9 wasn't worth copying and thus it's an insult to DS9.

(I kinda like Voyager, myself), but also hate TNG (I love it), and LOVE TOS (I respect what it did for its time, and for being the first Trek, but I find the actual show to be mediocre to bad on the whole, with a few moments of greatness)?

They hate TNG for not being darker and the characters meaner and more 20th century, and they love TOS for being 100% like the 20th century but in space.

Or this notion that if you took all the plots, characters, ideas, concepts, etc. that have been heavily criticized in Voyager, and just reversed them with all the plots, characters, ideas, concepts, etc. that have been heavily praised in DS9, that we would all still LOVE DS9 just for being DS9 and HATE Voyager just for being Voyager? Do you HONESTLY believe that?

Yes.

Think about what that means for a moment. That means that the content of a TV show doesn't matter. Whether we will like a show or not has nothing to do with what that show is about, what the characters are like, how well-written it is, etc... No, the only thing that matters is what the show is called. Surely you see how ludicrous that sounds, don't you?

Nope, it's just double standard in action.

 

[Bluesteel]

I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll make one more post to TheGodBen or Godben (whatever you prefer) before I head into the sunlight and disappear. Good bye my friends.

He does try to take part in the Republic's politics, but he's not very good at at. During the last election in 2007 many commentators were suggesting that Sinn Fein could make a breakthrough and take a dozen seats, until Gerry Adams decided to take part in a leaders debate and displayed much ignorance about politics here. Unsurprisingly, the breakthrough never happened.

I was actually making a joke but this is even funnier. Then man spent his entire life trying to get NI away from the UK and into the Republic and your telling me that he's UK MP but never ever even during the dark days of the Trouble bothered taking part in Irelands politics. That seems dumb. Especially because if he did succeed and get NI away from the UK. He would have to explain to the Irish people why they should accept a poor region that survives only because the British Government is sending billions every single year. Money that Ireland would probably have a hard time giving away. Also the fact that the Protestants themselves might do a bit of their own nationalism and try to get back into the UK.

 

[StarryEyed]

I'm going to put in a plug for Anwar here.

I agree that he's basically acting like a 5-year old with his feelings hurt because other people have different opinions on the relative merits of DS9 vs. Voyager. That part is pitiful. I hope he recognizes it as pitiful and makes an effort to change because it's for his own growth.

That said, DS9 fans (of which I am one) do tend to get a little haughty in our opinion that DS9 is the pinnacle of Star Trek. It's easy because among hard-core Trek fans, DS9 usually rates at the top. Voyager usually rates either at the bottom or only better than Enterprise. A lot of Niners have rubbed that fact in Voyager fans' noses in the past so I can understand a certain frustration on their part. We all have an emotional attachment to one or more Trek series. None of us likes it when the mundane people watching American Idol label us as geeks living in our parent's basement because we love Star Trek. We similarly don't like it when one of our own trashes us for having an attachment for a particular series.

For the record, my personal preference for the various Star Trek series is:

DS9
TNG
TOS
VOY
ENT

I think Voyager was an overall positive contribution to the Star Trek universe but with many more flaws than the series that came before it.

As I said, I think Anwar needs to grow up. I empathize with his frustration though. It's easy for us Niners to criticize because we're at the peak of the popularity poll (among Trek fans) while Voyager is at or near the bottom. What if it were reversed? Would you feel any less attachment for DS9? Wouldn't you be ticked off if Voyager fans rubbed it in your nose that DS9 was at the bottom?

Just sayin'.

 

[RyuRoots]

Because you don't like that I'm not standing for Niner abuse of VOY anymore, naturally.

You're not 'standing up' for anything. You're a deranged loony convinced of something that is simply factually incorrect.

Funny how it's okay to gang up on one guy who fights back at the VOY haters but not okay to do the same for the guys who hate VOY. ANOTHER double standard.

You're being ganged up on because your arguments are idiotic at best and completely daft and incomprehensible at worst. There are no haters, or at least nothing like what you describe and piss and moan about. Get over yourself.

They do, VOY was their chance to destroy the trek formula and change the entire universe into your usual run-of-the-mill darkfest, and seeing that the people on VOY weren't doing that ruined their hopes. Also they think that since VOY wasn't DS9 part 2 it means DS9 wasn't worth copying and thus it's an insult to DS9.

Bullshit. Again, I've never seen anyone say anything like this, and I don't honestly believe you have either. And also funny how you can't name names anymore after the very few you provided turned out to not be cases.

Or this notion that if you took all the plots, characters, ideas, concepts, etc. that have been heavily criticized in Voyager, and just reversed them with all the plots, characters, ideas, concepts, etc. that have been heavily praised in DS9, that we would all still LOVE DS9 just for being DS9 and HATE Voyager just for being Voyager? Do you HONESTLY believe that?

Yes.

Think about what that means for a moment. That means that the content of a TV show doesn't matter. Whether we will like a show or not has nothing to do with what that show is about, what the characters are like, how well-written it is, etc... No, the only thing that matters is what the show is called. Surely you see how ludicrous that sounds, don't you?

Nope, it's just double standard in action.

And I don't even know WHAT to say to this absurdity. It's like you actively try to outdo yourself.

 

[Kelso]

Is anyone here familiar with The Rifleman? The Ben/Jake relationship reminds me of the relationship between Lucas and Mark.

I recall reading that a comparison to The Rifleman was how DS9 was pitched. Just like TOS was Wagon Train in space.

Hmm. I remember hearing that way back when... but had always thought they were referring to a show called The Riflemen (which, now that I check IMDB, doesn't exist. ) I never even realized that they were actually talking about The Rifleman.

In that case, I think they did a good job. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Anwar]

You're not 'standing up' for anything. You're a deranged loony convinced of something that is simply factually incorrect.

I'm a "deranged loony" for enjoying VOY, nice to see the Niners showing their true face.

You're being ganged up on because your arguments are idiotic at best and completely daft and incomprehensible at worst. There are no haters, or at least nothing like what you describe and piss and moan about. Get over yourself.

Not until the Niners admit their show isn't the perfect pinnacle of Trek and that they aren't the best fans for enjoying it. And I'm ganged up on for not liking DS9. You wouldn't care if I was against Enterprise.

Bullshit. Again, I've never seen anyone say anything like this

You haven't been reading the same boards as me, then. At least you haven't been paying attention to them.

and I don't honestly believe you have either. And also funny how you can't name names anymore after the very few you provided turned out to not be cases.

I'll mention the folks at the RPG forums and stardestroyer.net if it shuts up that argument.

And I don't even know WHAT to say to this absurdity. It's like you actively try to outdo yourself.

You can admit that if stuff from VOY was on DS9 you wouldn't have any problems with any of it, while the well-liked stuff from DS9 would be on VOY and despised for being on VOY.

 

[RyuRoots]

What?! Nooooo. You're a deranged loony for attacking supposed 'haters' that do not exist.

And again, no. People are against you because you stink up the forum with your whining.

And yes, I have. I browse all the 24th-century show boards. The only ones I don't actively and usually poke through are TOS and TrekLit.

But that is NOT RELEVANT. You whine about them HERE. So what happens elsewhere makes no difference whatsoever.

And you really are simply an idiot if you honestly believe that. If Sisko took on the Borg with runabouts, I would be every bit as irritated. If Voyager had an epic battle like in Sacrifice of Angels, it would be EVERY bit as awesome.

Anwar, you are either psychotic, an imbecile on this selective point, or an amazing troll.

 

[Anwar]

What?! Nooooo. You're a deranged loony for attacking supposed 'haters' that do not exist.

They exist, either now or in the past. I scare off a lot of them or drove them underground. If that makes me deranged I suppose the whole lot of you are deranged for attacking me repeatedly.

And again, no. People are against you because you stink up the forum with your whining.

And no one would care if I was doing this on any other board aside from the TOS or DS9 ones, because it's only bad when someone points out the flaws in the worshiped shows.

But that is NOT RELEVANT. You whine about them HERE. So what happens elsewhere makes no difference whatsoever.

It's relevant, it shows the hateful attitude towards VOY exists all over the net and this place is no different.

And you really are simply an idiot if you honestly believe that. If Sisko took on the Borg with runabouts, I would be every bit as irritated. If Voyager had an epic battle like in Sacrifice of Angels, it would be EVERY bit as awesome.

If Sisko took out the Borg in a runabout the Niners would be thrilled over him defeating an "inferior TNG creation" because of how it shows Ds9 characters are inherently more powerful and cooler than anyone else, and maybe give some other BS over how the Prophets were helping him.

If VOY had a battle like that, the haters would just complain it was dumb for them to get involved in some local war, or that forming a delta federation would violate the PD and make them all traitors.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

The "deranged loony" comment isn't for not liking DS9, OR for liking VOY. I can understand why DS9 is not to everyone's tastes, and that's fine. That's why there's so much out there--different people have different tastes. It's no different than it is with food...it's just a matter of taste.

The problem is the way that you continue to attack everyone when we've stated repeatedly that we aren't bothered by what you happen to like or dislike. I mean, good grief--I don't even go into the VOY forum most of the time out of respect for the fact that my opinions are strong enough that I would probably piss people off. Same thing when it comes to some threads in the TNG forum: there's one I saw in there about Trek/TNG philosophy and made the decision not to get involved because I KNOW I'd get myself in trouble because I have a major, fundamental disagreement. I know what venues my "Cardassian philosophy" will and will not go over well in, and I try to respect that.

I think you may have missed a lot of the criticism we Niners have for our own show. Was it perfect? God, no. I am a VERY strong Niner, myself, and that does tend to be to the exclusion of the other series, but when I review an episode, I have no problem with calling out the things that don't make sense, or mentioning the plot turns I don't like. Search the phrase "Klingon Party Girl" for an example of something that really irks me.

I have to say, sometimes it bothers me when you've told me that I'm not THAT kind of fan--and yet I am a VERY strong Niner. You see what that demonstrates? I can have a strong opinion but maintain civility. There are LOTS of us who are perfectly capable of doing the same thing and of being respectful, but you've told us that we don't count, and our numbers simply aren't given the same weight as people who prove your point.

In real life, if a person exhibits bigotry towards a group of people, but then says "oh, but THAT one is OK," yet they continue to bash the group as a whole, that doesn't make it any better. And it does cast doubt on the motives and true feelings when it comes to those few people who have been singled out as exceptions. I am not saying this as an attack--I am saying this because when people see that sort of behavior, even if they are the ones who are in this sort of "exempt" position, it makes them uncomfortable because they feel like they could be turned on at any time.

And that is something that does indeed make me uncomfortable. I see how you treat my friends, see how you treat me, compare the two, and they don't add up. And I truly do find that disturbing. It's inconsistent. Not that I would like to be attacked, of course. But I would LIKE very much for none of us to be attacked. For the same respect you have accorded me in prior conversations to be extended to everyone. You have gotten to know me yet refused to know other strong Niners--only bashed them for existing and believing differently than you. That decision is not rational: after all, if one's OK, then that admits the possibility that the rest of us are, too. Yet you have not explored or given any consideration to that avenue.

And that inconsistency truly does bother me, creep me out, even.

 

[Anwar]

Believe me, I've tried. I'm always on the look-out for the nicer Niners, but after 14 years I reviewed all my VOY-hater experiences and just decided to stop just taking it and to speak back for once.

Guess that makes the VOY fans the more tolerant ones, we put up with cruel criticisms for 14 years but the Niners can't take it after a few months.