How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?
- Thread starter Garak007
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I too would like to express my admiration such a fine example of impassioned monologuing.
But then the Mod is wise in all things...
But then the Mod is wise in all things...
You mean that awful Lisbon Treaty, right? I am not Irish but I felt very sad to hear Ireland passed that steaming pile of crap. All filthy puns intended.
And Loki--be careful...you don't want to sound like the traitor Broca, do you? (Miss Taken Loyalties...)
And Loki--be careful...you don't want to sound like the traitor Broca, do you? (Miss Taken Loyalties...)
I'm a Star Trek fan because I'm a fan of the show actually called Star Trek. The rest I can take or leave. Doesn't make me any less of a Star Trek fan.
I agree. It was the inversion that worked. Who would've thought that Nog, who was on the verge of being shipped off to a Bajoran prison at the beginning of the series, would actually wind up joining Starfleet and even become chief of operations on the station? I didn't see that coming!
The ep where he reveals the real reason for joining Starfleet to Sisko -- a Ferengi without profit is no Ferengi at all -- was moving. It made me feel for Nog, and it showed Sisko was a bit harsh with the Ferengi, until made to realize he needed to evaluate Nog as a person. Quark, I think, hit it right on the head when he accused Sisko and other humans of denigrating Ferengis because they were once much like them.
The writers let Jake be normal. And making him a writer opened all kinds of possibilities for him. My favorite development was when he defied his dad and stayed on the station during the Dominion occupation and essentially became a war correspondent. It helped that he was the Emissary's son, so Weyoun didn't mess with him that much. But I enjoyed how Weyoun forced Jake to accept his progaganda if he wanted his dispatches sent to the Federation News Service.
Come to think of it, a book about a daring young reporter who winds up in the Alpha Quadrant's hot spots might be an interesting story!
Red Rum!
What if they gave a TrekBBS war, and nobody came? -- RR
*Also joins in on the applause*Yeah. I loved the fact that after they voted No. Everybody started to care about a tiny little forgettable Island of the UK who most people stereotype has drunkards. Then spent more then a year scaring them to death about voting No again only to ignore them after they obliged to vote Yes. All though I agree with the Treaty and the need to strengthen the EU.
I just found the whole thing funny. Especially when Sinn Fien leader Gerry Adams (A British Citizen) came down South to argue against it twice.
Dusty Ayres
Commodore
Yeah, this was one of the things that made him more likable (and is an example of why DS9's writing was so strong). I've KNOWN people who are a lot like Jake in real life. I've never met anyone who's even remotely similar to Wesley.
And if you did, you'd probably want to kick your foot up his posterior on principle alone. I've known people like Jake, too, and I liked them.
But if you knew anybody like Bashir, you'd do the same thing! Wesley wasn't as bad as Bashir was, and I would be a friend with him, and want to be a parent to him-in fact, I prefer Wesley to most of the screwup moronic goldbrick smartass (in the bad way) kids seen on shows like Growing Pains(Mike Seaver), The Cosby Show (Theo Huxtable), and Mr. Belvedere (Wesley Owens). I like a kid who had his head on straight, knew where he was going, how intelligent he was, and how he applied that intelligence (I also liked Lucas Wolenczak from SeaQuest DSV for the same reason, although he had to be forced to be on Sea Quest to keep him out of trouble on land.) For the most part, I also like Doogie Houser for the same reasons-they were boys that I wished I could have been like when I was a boy (18 years old).
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I loved Wesley...from the beginning. He is so much like me...maybe a bit less about the "outsmarting experienced adults"..though...;-)
Okay...had a chance to look at some of these links today.
Here are some comments:
1. You actually had a THREAD called "DS9 Fans: The Bane of Our Very Existence, Part 9,782"?????
Is that a quote from me? Because I seem to recall saying something like that once with regard to the never-ending whining in the VOY forum about us.
Or did Akiraprise just re-name the thread I posted in during my last ill-advised foray into the VOY forum?
Anyway, most excellent!And I love how it's so LONG too! That totally rocks!
2. What I see going on between you and GodBen is debate. And as I read it, it sounds to me as if the guy really WANTED to love VOY.....but while there are aspects he really liked alot, just couldn't get to an acceptable level of love, BY YOUR STANDARDS.
Now...I have a couple of things to say about that.
First - I know what it's like to really, REALLY want to love a show, but in the end, just not being able to find that love. For me, the show is Californication. I LOVED The X-Files. I mean, I REALLY loved it. And David Duchovney had, like semi-god status to me. But then I saw Californiacation...a show I was EAGER to love, because I adore it's star. And I HATED it.
I mean, here was this guy who was so cool as Fox Mulder, being a drunken, slovenly, womanizing selfish jackass. And I just couldn't love it.
I suppose it is a testament to David Duchovney's acting that I hated that show, in a way. But nevertheless...the point is that it IS very possible to WANT to love a show, and just not finding much to love. That, to me, is not the mark of a troll or 'hater'. That, to me, is the mark of a devoted and sincere fan who was just disappointed, despite their best efforts and intentions.
Seems like that's where GodBen was with VOY. At least in that thread. And I see in kimc's sigline (which carries a GodBen quote) that apparently he doesn't HATE VOY like I hate Californication. He just doesn't love it as much as he loves DS9.
And you can HARDLY fault him for that. I mean, I assume you love VOY more than you love/like DS9....assuming you like DS9 at all. And so you have to at least allow him the same right: to like one show more than another.
I will allow the VOY mods to comment on their thoughts regarding this now. Akiraprise said he would be along sometime today to comment.
Second, you cannot expect people to all be exactly like you. To love some things just exactly as you love them...and hate other things in an identical manner and degree as you.
It is VERY clear to me that you don't love DS9 nearly as much as I do...or GodBen does. You have LOTS of complaints about DS9. We have complaints too, but many fewer. But that doesn't cause us to run around blasting you as a 'DS9 hater' all the time.
To us, we just see and accept that it is normal for people to disagree. And in fact, on a message board, it is a GOOD thing for people to disagree. Because if everyone on this board agreed 100% about everything, it would be a pretty damned BORING place. If your nirvana existed on TrekBBS, we would have two types of threads on this board, and only two:
1. I Loved XYZ!!! Didn't You???....followed by a bazillion posts saying "Yes! I loved it too!" (the end).
and the other type:
2. I HATED XYZ!!! Didn't you???.....followed by the same bazillion posts, also all in agreement. (the end)
And MAN would that be boring.
I say this lovingly, but there is actually at least one forum on this board that is exactly that way. And as much as I LOVE the show related to it...I have to say, the forum is a total snore zone....because EVERYONE who posts in there loves the show! And that is the LOST forum.
Good GOD that forum is boring!!!!!
And the thing is that it is very likely the most exciting show on TV! So what the FUCK is up with that?????
If the LOST forum proves anything, it proves that every single poster in a forum LOVING a show is not necessarily a good thing. Because I can barely stir up a discussion in there to save my life.
Seriously.
And trust me...that is no fun at all.
I have been seriously considering joining another board (something I haven't done in a VERY long time) just to find SOMEONE to talk about LOST with. Because wow, our LOST forum is pathetic.
Man, I'd WELCOME a poster who disliked the show coming in there....just to have someone to talk to!
Seriously.
Now, as for your discussion with DevilEyes in that link above, quite frankly, I find YOU being more of a DS9 'hater' than I find DevilEyes being a VOY 'hater'. You were just blasting AWAY at DS9. I mean, you were VERY critical.
So why is it acceptable for YOU to blast away at DS9, and not expect a response?
Do you just expect these guys to just agree with you and start referring to you as 'Oh Wise One' or something? I mean, seriously? What do you expect when you say stuff like:
From where I sit, Anwar, you are holding onto one of the biggest double standards I have ever seen a poster have the nuts to hold on this board.
It is okay for YOU to blast DS9...but it is not okay for them to defend it? Or to debate the accuracy of your remarks???
From where I sit, Anwar, I don't think this is really about DS9 Fan VOY 'haters' at all. I think this is REALLY about your frustration over your own lack of ability as a debater.
You can't debate worth a damn....but rather than work to improve your technique, you just write off anyone who disagrees with you and makes a few good points as a 'hater'....and then you commence whining ENDLESSLY about them in hopes that they will either finally get sick of your whining and flame you.....or go away after realizing that there is no point in debating with a person who can't take the heat.
I don't see 'haters' there. I see folks who enjoy a good spirited debate...and who DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY when others disagree with them....because they understand that the whole POINT of a message board such as this - the thing that makes it FUN, is the challenge of defending your beliefs. Not via endless whining whenever you can't hold your own....but via sucking it up, growing some frakkin' BALLS, and not feeling the NEED to have everyone on earth agree with you about everything.
Really, Anwar....if what you want is for everyone on earth to always agree with you 100% of the time, then go debate with your mother...or someone else who lives and dies off of your every utterance. Because I got news for you:
You ain't gonna find such a person on these here internets.
It's a rough and tumble world out here in cyberspace. And TrekBBS, because of it's moderation, is the BABY POOL, my friend.
If you can't take the kind of small-time heat those guys were giving you in that thread without resorting to whining....then you'd better not EVER leave the safety of the VOY forum.
Because that just isn't the way the rest of the internet is run.
Shoot....even in HERE, I give these guys a lot of latitude. Because one thing I'll say for my krew....they don't take shit personally. If someone hates DS9, we couldn't POSSIBLY care less. We will debate them...and we will debate them hard. In fact, in here, we LOVE a good debate (no whining though - whiners make us crazy)! But you will NEVER find a Niner whining about how the 'haters' are making them miserable. We just suck it up, debate the people who are worth debating....and put the idiots on ignore. Except for yours truly, who sadly, cannot put anyone on ignore.
We do not CARE if you hate DS9, Anwar. We really don't. It matters not one BIT to us if you hate every single MINUTE of DS9, and it does not effect our enjoyment of the show one iota.
But Jesus Tapdancin' CHRIST! STOP THE FRAKKIN' WHINING, already, and be a MAN.
Stop CARING what GodBen thinks....or what DevilEyes thinks. I mean, who the fuck are THEY to you anyway? And why does their like or dislike of a TV show effect your life one little BIT???? They are NOBODY to you!!! They are usernames in the internet!!!! What DIFFERENCE does it make if DevilEyes dislikes Neelix????
Does it take THAT little of a bump in the road to ruin your life????
That is why this whole thing is just so ridiculous to me...and why you just need to STOP this shit.
Come in here....tell us how much you hate DS9 (backing up your posts, of course, per the rules). We don't care! But stop with the frakkin' whining about 'haters'. Blast away at the SHOW all you like. But lay the fuck OFF the fans.
Because the continuous whining about this fan group is going to start netting you trolling warnings.
The rules are quite clear about this. Complaints about a SHOW are okay. Complaints about a FAN GROUP are not. It's trolling.
And I've had enough of it.
The thread name was originally something different, it got changed later as a joke by the Mod.
Also, I don't expect all the other posters to be just like me. I just noticed the major double standards that were going on, the snobbish attitude Niners gave the rest of Modern Trek and decided to stop ignoring it. And naturally they all freaked out once I did which is what led us to this.
Go ahead and call me a DS9 hater, I stopped caring what the VOY Haters thought of me a long time ago.
The "only love" forums? You forgot to add NuBSG, that place a while back was nothing but love for the show.
They can defend DS9 all they want, that doesn't mean my complaints aren't valid just because they say so (and no, I don't think VOY was perfect either, I'm just sick of the Niner double standard).
Lack of "debating" skill? I'm not trying to debate with Niners at all, I'm pointing out the double standards they have for VOY (and sometimes the rest of Modern Trek). And of course, they freak out when someone DOESN'T love DS9 and everything about it. I stopped caring what they thought when I realized how they held VOY fans in contempt anyways. THEY are the ones who can't take the heat.
And yes, I'm quite aware of the stupidity you can find out in the Net: I'm an Alien 3 fan and a Beast Machines defender too, so I have to put up with idiot Aliens fanboys and BMachs haters most of the time as well. It's the price you pay for not going along with what's popular.
The ones who need to suck it up are the Niners who can't accept that I exist.
Don't blame me, I spoiled my ballot.
Rather than ticking Yes or No I wrote: I want to vote yes, but forcing us to vote again is undemocratic so I'm spoiling my ballot.
Yes, I realise that you don't care.
And in the run-up to the referendum I handed out Yes fliers while telling people to vote No in order to confuse people, until one of the Yes campaigners came over and took the fliers away from me.
Technically Gerry Adams is also Irish. At the time of his birth the Irish constitution still claimed Northern Ireland as being part of the "national territory" and that all children born on the island of Ireland were granted Irish citizenship. The national territory part was removed via referendum in 1998 (as part of the Good Friday Agreement) and the citizenship part was was changed via referendum in 2004 to include that at least one of the parents has to be eligible for Irish citizenship too.
Basically, we're slowly changing our constitution to get rid of Gerry Adams.
Anwar, when I worked in software support there was a man, lets call him Simon, who held a subscription to our service and rang in every day to moan. He had the most depressing voice you could imagine, and he would go on and on for 10 minutes about how his new computer was 2% short of being perfect, but if we ever offered to fix it for him he would claim he was too busy and he had to go.
This went on for months, and eventually his complaints stopped being about the PC and started being about the service we were providing, which wasn't fair because he hardly ever let us do anything. The management took customer complaints very seriously (as they should) so they picked one of the highest-ranking agents, lets call him Terrence, and got him to ring Simon. Simon explained the problems to Terrence and Terrence offered to fix them, but Simon turned him down because he was "too busy" and arranged for Terrence to call him back the next night at a specific time. Terrence did so, but all that happened was that Simon moaned for 10 minutes and asked for Terrence to call him back the next night. Terrence did so, but the cycle repeated for a week without Simon letting Terrence do anything to resolve the issues.
One afternoon I answered the phone and it was Terrence. I knew it was him right away via the depressing sound of his voice, so I settled in for a boring call about nothing, but at least I wouldn't have to do any work. He droned on for 10 minutes (when listening back to the call there was actually a 5 minute gap where I didn't say anything), and I was content to let him, but then he started to complain about Terrence and the level of service we were providing. I decided I had enough of Simon's shit, so I stopped being passive and I started calling him out on his bullshit, politely but firmly. The call lasted another 15 minutes, and I refused to let him get away with trying to blame us for a service that he wasn't letting us perform. It was exasperating, and when he finally hung up I sat back in my chair and let out a bizarre growl/shaking thing.
Unfortunately my supervisor and my department head were sitting right behind me discussing some budget thing and they looked at me as though I was insane, which at that moment I possibly was. They asked me what had just happened and I explained the situation to them, so they reviewed all the call-logs, and they spoke to Terrence, and they quickly came to a conclusion; Simon was abusing our service and wasting our time, and there was nothing we could do to help him. So one of the supervisors took control of the situation and rang Simon to explain that they have been studying his account and decided that they were going to refund his subscription since he obviously wasn't happy with the service.
Simon went mental. He started screaming down the phone (I could hear it from across the desk) and claimed that what we were doing was illegal somehow (it wasn't). He didn't pay for our service so that we could fix his PC, he was paying us in order to moan, and now we were cutting him off from his only joy in life. After 20 minutes the supervisor had to hang up on him, but an hour later Simon rang back, and I was the lucky agent to answer his call. He shouted and complained at me for the fact that we were cutting him off, and all I could do was listen to him and explain that I wasn't going to talk to him about his PC woes. He rang back again the next day and did the same. The day after that he rang back and tried to pretend to an agent that he still had an account, but all the agents knew who he was so he wasn't fooling anybody. It took him two weeks to stop calling us and holding up our agents, and do you know why he stopped? Because somebody gave him the number for the hardware support department and he started ringing them up every day instead.
That story is either true or I just made it up, I'll let you be the judge. And if you want to draw parallels between yourself and an insane man whose only joy in life was being miserable then feel free, I'm not going to draw them for you. Either way, a mod has given you a friendly warning to cut your bullshit against Niners and you can either accept that and back down quietly, or I and every other Niner that knows you will report you every time you single us out for abuse. If you want to be banned then be my guest, but if you want to take part in civilised and constructive debates then you are going to have to change your attitude.
I work at a call center so I'm VERY familiar with those kinds of people, thank you very much.
Want me to change? Then Niners will have to compromise and change as well, having to deal with the fact that there are people who are just fed up with them and their attitudes towards VOY. We're just going to all change.
Want me to change? Then Niners will have to compromise and change as well, having to deal with the fact that there are people who are just fed up with them and their attitudes towards VOY. We're just going to all change.
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