I don't think being long-winded is an advantage if one is rude.
How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?
- Thread starter Garak007
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Wesley got Ashley Judd into his bed and then... played video games. D'oh!
And I have Cirroc Lofton on tape saying that, as a healthy 15 years old boy surrounded by super-gorgeous ladies like Nana Visitor, Terry Farrell, Chase Masterson, etc in tight clothes, he had quite some problems keeping the Jake's Snake from making his presence shown. And sometimes, failed.
Rofl, poor kid
But then VOY made up for it with Naomi and Icheb. While VOY did some things wrong and half assed they got their kids down right. I never found any of the kids on VOY annoying. Icheb is how Wes should have been written. Bright, but not some uber genius who made the rest of the crew look like schmucks.
Ok... I'm sorry, I know this is continuing an off-topic tangent, and may get me warned or something, but I don't care. I can't keep quiet about this anymore.
2) That wasn't even a rant, it was a well-constructed rebuttal to the bizarre notions you've been pushing as long as I've been a member of this site.
3) Bullshit. You are the way you are regarding the whole Niner/VOY hate business because you choose to be that way. Even if there WAS a conflict between Niners and VOY fans that was anything similar to what you describe, it's long since over.
You seem to have lost track of the fact that there are plenty of people who watch a show, then decide they don't like it BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T ENTERTAINED BY WHAT THEY SAW. There are more people - MANY more - who like DS9 better than Voyager cause they saw some of each and just thought the former was a better TV show and better Trek, then there are people who fall into your nutso mold of "People hated Voyager because it was VOYAGER! They were pre-destined to hate it before it even aired cause it wasn't DS9!!"
And yes, I am taking PKTrekGirl's word on how this went down and how widespread it was, because she is a mod and joined in 2001, thus was here during this period of supposed warfare.
I haven't been a super active poster. But I HAVE (apart from a period of... about three months or so, when things were just too hectic) been a very regular lurker. I frequently pass chunks of downtime at my job (and there's usually a lot) just browsing threads at TrekBBS, and I have to take issue with this. No, they DON'T still exist. No, the war ISN'T still going, and YOU are the one who doesn't "want to admit" that this is the case. Through all my browsing, all my lurking since discovering this site, outside of the occasional discussion and the even more occasional flare up of tempers over the issue (I'm not saying DS9 vs. VOY sentiments don't happen at all EVER, just that there is no "war"), the only consistent, repeated, regular source of fuel for this conflict that I see is YOU. Every time you post in any DS9 or Voyager thread you bring this up, trying to assert that any criticism of Voyager is just Niners bashing the show because it's Voyager, and insisting that if the same flaw were in DS9, it would be ignored, which is a load of crap. Incidentally, you also seem to be of the opinion that all Niners also love TOS, and hate TNG, which is ALSO a load of crap. You refuse to accept the fact that there are way more people who simply like DS9 better than Voyager because they liked one TV show more than another than there are people who actually crusade against Voyager the way you seem to think they do. GET OVER IT.
As I said, I may regret posting this later... but I don't care. I'm sick of this. You have been rampaging about this for too long, and it needs to stop. The things you are saying simply aren't true, at least not now, regardless of whether they might have had more validity several years ago.
For your sake, mine, everyones, just STOP.
On topic!!!
One of the greatest things I thought they did with Jake was in the beginning of season 6, when he stays behind on the station to try and report on what's happening there. In particular, I loved seeing him talking to Weyon and trying to get him to grant him an interview, with Weyoun protesting Jake's use of the term "occupation." Also, I thought the scene with him talking to Odo and Kira in Odo's office was fascinating, cause we get to see him overstepping their boundaries a little bit. Kira and Odo both are visibly uncomfortable with some of Jake's questions, and not just happily interacting with him simply because they're all on the same side.
As for Icheb, I agree with Akillaprise that he and (to a lesser extent) Naomi were handled well. Actually, I'd have to say that the most well developed "Trek kid" may BE Icheb, even over Jake, for me. Yes, that's right, Icheb is better than Jake AND I'M A NINER OMG
Right, because every character on DS9 was a grim bitter crazy AWOL soldier type who suffered from perpetual PTSD and never smiled.
1) Someone else already covered that.
2) That wasn't even a rant, it was a well-constructed rebuttal to the bizarre notions you've been pushing as long as I've been a member of this site.
3) Bullshit. You are the way you are regarding the whole Niner/VOY hate business because you choose to be that way. Even if there WAS a conflict between Niners and VOY fans that was anything similar to what you describe, it's long since over.
Seriously?? Not "there are people in the world who would go that far," or even "There are probably some crazy Trek fans who would go that far over an argument about which series was better." No, some Niners, specifically, might go that far. Right.
Putting aside the fact that this passage REALLY makes it sound like you are saying that you don't have a problem with some of those VOY forum-ers because they still liked the show, despite having problems with it (or in other words, anyone who simply dislikes the show more than they like it is automatically in the wrong...)
You seem to have lost track of the fact that there are plenty of people who watch a show, then decide they don't like it BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T ENTERTAINED BY WHAT THEY SAW. There are more people - MANY more - who like DS9 better than Voyager cause they saw some of each and just thought the former was a better TV show and better Trek, then there are people who fall into your nutso mold of "People hated Voyager because it was VOYAGER! They were pre-destined to hate it before it even aired cause it wasn't DS9!!"
Oh really?
TWO. TWO NINERS. (also two VOY fans...). Not "Niners in general." Two. Continuing with the World War II theme, are all those who were citizens living in Japan at the time to be blamed for Pearl Harbor? Just because some Niners felt this way and said these things does NOT mean that "Niners" feel this way or say these things.Here's a news flash for you, Anwar: The DS9/VOY Fan Wars of 2001 - 2002 are OVER. Done. As in, neither of the two Niners who stirred up the shit are even HERE any longer. Nor are the two VOY fan shitstirrers.
ALL OF THEM ARE GONE. THEY WERE GONE YEARS AGO.
THE WAR IS OVER.
Good grief. Pack up your bazooka already.
And yes, I am taking PKTrekGirl's word on how this went down and how widespread it was, because she is a mod and joined in 2001, thus was here during this period of supposed warfare.
And AGAIN. What is wrong with you? You are attacking everyone who identifies as a DS9 fan over these perceived injustices.
Says who? Says you?
I haven't been a super active poster. But I HAVE (apart from a period of... about three months or so, when things were just too hectic) been a very regular lurker. I frequently pass chunks of downtime at my job (and there's usually a lot) just browsing threads at TrekBBS, and I have to take issue with this. No, they DON'T still exist. No, the war ISN'T still going, and YOU are the one who doesn't "want to admit" that this is the case. Through all my browsing, all my lurking since discovering this site, outside of the occasional discussion and the even more occasional flare up of tempers over the issue (I'm not saying DS9 vs. VOY sentiments don't happen at all EVER, just that there is no "war"), the only consistent, repeated, regular source of fuel for this conflict that I see is YOU. Every time you post in any DS9 or Voyager thread you bring this up, trying to assert that any criticism of Voyager is just Niners bashing the show because it's Voyager, and insisting that if the same flaw were in DS9, it would be ignored, which is a load of crap. Incidentally, you also seem to be of the opinion that all Niners also love TOS, and hate TNG, which is ALSO a load of crap. You refuse to accept the fact that there are way more people who simply like DS9 better than Voyager because they liked one TV show more than another than there are people who actually crusade against Voyager the way you seem to think they do. GET OVER IT.
Uh huh. Like in TheGod/GhoulBen's "Revisiting Voyager" thread, in which the positive, neutral, or "Well, it could be really good at times, but also had a lot of problems" sentiments FAR outweighed the "VOYAGER JUST SUCKED AND THAT'S IT" sentiments? A thread that you yourself admitted you didn't read more than like a page or two of, citing that you didn't NEED to read more than that to "know" what the thread was no doubt full of.
As I said, I may regret posting this later... but I don't care. I'm sick of this. You have been rampaging about this for too long, and it needs to stop. The things you are saying simply aren't true, at least not now, regardless of whether they might have had more validity several years ago.
For your sake, mine, everyones, just STOP.
On topic!!!
One of the greatest things I thought they did with Jake was in the beginning of season 6, when he stays behind on the station to try and report on what's happening there. In particular, I loved seeing him talking to Weyon and trying to get him to grant him an interview, with Weyoun protesting Jake's use of the term "occupation." Also, I thought the scene with him talking to Odo and Kira in Odo's office was fascinating, cause we get to see him overstepping their boundaries a little bit. Kira and Odo both are visibly uncomfortable with some of Jake's questions, and not just happily interacting with him simply because they're all on the same side.
As for Icheb, I agree with Akillaprise that he and (to a lesser extent) Naomi were handled well. Actually, I'd have to say that the most well developed "Trek kid" may BE Icheb, even over Jake, for me. Yes, that's right, Icheb is better than Jake AND I'M A NINER OMG
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Link
Niners that love Voyager: 7.7%
Niners that like Voyager: 35.9%
Niners that think Voyager was okay: 30.8%
Niners that disliked Voyager: 25.6%
Niners that hate Voyager: 0%
Number of Niners with unfavourable opinion of Voyager: Minority
Guys like you need not exist.
To be fair, I did end up giving Voyager a slightly below average score, but it was close, and if you added the scores I deducted for being TNG episodes the show would have had a positive score.
Right, because every character on DS9 was a grim bitter crazy AWOL soldier type who suffered from perpetual PTSD and never smiled.
Double standard. They're okay with what DS9 gave us for characters but wouldn't accept anything other than what I described for VOY's cast.
Nope, I used to be more tolerant and open-minded to the Niners but after 14 years I just decided they weren't worth the effort and nothing would ever change that. So now I just treat them the way they should be treated.
Yep.
Because it wasn't DS9 part 2.
Yes.
That's just from that point in time. Go back to 2003-2005 and the VOY forum is nothing but "this series is utter trash compared to BSG" or "This show should've been 100% like BSG" or "This cast sucked and they should've gotten the actors from BSG".
I've put up with Niners, that's what's wrong with me.
Yep.
The Niners thought they had trampled all the VOY-fans and they'd won. I'm just showing that not everyone worships DS9 as the ultime perfect untouchable series.
And yes, if those flaws were in DS9 no one would care.
They do, they also go on about how those two are the only real Trek and how anything else is garbage and anyone who likes Modern Trek isn't a Trek fan.
"It had a lot of problems" isn't really a positive sentiment.
Now you know how I felt after 14 years of putting up with Niners. Though I'm not as malicious as they are.
Star Trek. Serious business.
Should be "Gods", plural. Michael Piller is up there with Gene and DC Fontana!
Oh dear God. It's really bizarre that someone could write these things and mean them seriously.
How ironic... you've just described yourself.
Only, the big differerence is, that guy had actually been in a war, while you are POSTING ON THE FORUM about two TV SHOWS.
The biggest irony is that you keep talking about some phantom Niners-Voyager haters whose whole purpose in life is to hate a TV show and fight a war against its noble defenders such as yourself - when in fact, you are the only hater around here. I can't believe that anyone could actually spend so much time whining about how much he hates those terrible fans of a TV show called Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and how they are ruining his life and destroying the world by not adoring every episode and character and every single aspect of a TV show called Star Trek: Voyager.
Get a life. And more importantly, get professional help. I am not saying this as an insult - I really mean it. You sound deranged.
Someone had to say it.
Should be "Gods", plural. Michael Piller is up there with Gene and DC Fontana!
I refer to the heterogenous* entity that is the totality of Star Trek
*I pulled the usage of that word out of my arse, wonder if it actually holds up
Listen to some of the stuff I put up with from the Niners, then you'll know bizarre.
Oh dear God. It's really bizarre that someone could write these things and mean them seriously.
That was someone else's post, not mine. Got quoted by mistake.
Like I said, it's not ruining my life. It is irritating how they were ready to hate every aspect of VOY 30 minutes into the first episode though.
Yeah, because the only way to not like DS9 is to be brain-damaged in some way. Real subtle, you are
.
Here! Here!
Yeah, because the only way to not like DS9 is to be brain-damaged in some way. Real subtle, you are
There is a way not to like a show without hating its fans , or hanging out on a forum dedicated to it only to use every opportunity to complain about how horrible and evil the fans of that show are, that they're making your life miserable, and that you need to fight a war against them for all that is just and holy.
That's not "not liking a show", that a delusional paranoid obsession.- Status
