How did a Barzan end up on the Enterprise?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Krog, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. Krog

    Krog Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Barzans had no manned space travel in TNG... so how did they make first contact 100 year prior (or more) and still do not acquire that technology in a century..?
     
  2. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Probably Nhan-existent dilithium mines. They were always short on natural resources.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Reboot.
     
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  4. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe the purposely chose not to persue it?
    no
     
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  5. cultcross

    cultcross We truly were a song of ice and fire Moderator

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    Given that the standard for first contact is allegedly FTL drive, we can make a few hypotheses.
    1. The Barzans are capable of FTL drive and choose not to use it for manned spacecraft, hence no apparent advancement in technology.
    2. The Barzans are indeed quite limited in space travel ability and first contact was made anyway for whatever reason; the advancement we saw in TNG actually is a century on from TOS time, but some of their natives chose to leave to join Starfleet.
    3. The Barzan first contact has not been officially made yet, but some have found their way offworld, a la Saru.
     
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Laziness.
     
  7. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    All the episode stated was that they didn't have the means/desire to 'administrate' the wormhole. Without spaceflight they managed to bring in a number of spacefaring species to 'bid' for rights to the wormhole. <--- How did they manage that in the first place without having been contacted previously?
     
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  8. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Contact is explicit in "The Price": the Barzans have depended on the kindness of others for generations, hence aliens have been kind to them for a century, which means open contact.

    Unless it's a secret pact where the Barzan Elders say that the manna they distribute comes from "heavens" but do not further reveal that it's beamed down by Gallamites or Talarians... But that changes little, as Nhan could then be among the anointed.

    Whether the Barzans really have technology or not remains to be debated. "Lack of tech to exploit the wormhole" is explicated - does that really mean lack of FTL propulsion? (But what else could it mean?)

    Furthermore, how did this state of affairs come to be? Barzan environment is hostile to most aliens, but apparently the natives, too, require this outside assistance to survive. Perhaps Barzans had high tech down pat some time ago, and then lost it to a planetary disaster that rendered the place almost unlivable.

    In any case, I could definitely see people sneaking out on the ships that bring the manna in. Or buying tickets. Or enlisting.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  9. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    There was a whole thread for this nahnsense already.
     
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  10. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Perhaps they developed subspace communication and were able to make contact with spacefaring civilizations that way, without traveling among the stars themselves.

    Kor
     
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  11. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    How does that work, though? You make contact with aliens, you start trading with them, but somehow you don't buy a warp engine? Or even freight and passenger services?

    Why would warp drive have to be native (locally built, let alone locally invented) in order to allow interstellar travel? Sure, the Feds may refuse to contact you unless you yourself fly out to meet them, but obviously this isn't relevant with Barzan.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  12. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe since the Barzan require a rare atmospheric gas which apparently isn't found on too many other planets, they just don't see much reason to bother with manned spaceflight?

    Alternatively, Nhan could just have been "recruited" in the same manner that Saru was.
     
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  13. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  14. Burning Hearts of Qo'nOs

    Burning Hearts of Qo'nOs Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Maybe it's just the equivalent of a nation that doesn't have it's own standing defense force and doesn't manufacture any large scale vehicles? If they were brought into the interstellar community through trade from some other species, they might have been getting along fine without the need for ships. Crazier things could happen.
     
  15. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, it's like that one stubborn friend who refuses to get a car of their own, but they manage to go just about everywhere they want to by bumming rides off of everyone else.

    Kor
     
  16. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Depends on when the Federation made contact with them. Wouldn't they have not made contact unless the Barzan had warp capability?
     
  17. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    If a race discovers subspace transmissions before warp travel, does the Federation just ignore them even if they have already been detected?
     
  18. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Did they ever delve that deep into the PD? Data got himself in some hot water in Pen Pals, they went into it somewhat there.
     
  19. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    Not in the 23rd century. The PD of the 23rd century just said that Civilizations who didn't know:

    - There was life on other worlds
    - Didn't know of space travel

    Shouldn't be contacted. HOWEVER, there were plenty of times in Kirk's era the Federation made contact either because:

    - The race/planet had something they needed (IE Dilithium Crystals, planet was the only habitable planet in the area where they wanted a Starbase, etc.)

    - They found the race had already been 'contaminated' or contacted by another space faring race and/or knew of life on other worlds and that space travel was possible; even though they didn't possess it themselves.

    It was only in the 24th century the PD was retconned to basically: Co Contact if:

    - Not a member of the Federation already. (IE there were plenty of times they saw a spacefaring race or one that knew of life on other worlds but still decided they were not worthy of Contact/Help, etc.)

    - Doesn't know of the Federation specifically/Will remain 'protected' until the Federation (for whatever reason) deems the world/race 'worthy of contact/help, etc.'.

    It was also expanded to include no political/military interference whenever the Federation didn't want to get involved:

    Ex. The Cardassian invasion/occupation of Bajor.

    In Kirk's time the Federation did often do "shows of force" and other political maneuvers when they felt it suited their interests; but (supposedly) that was NOT done - at least by the Federation government proper - in the 24th century REGARDLESS of whether it would be in the best interest of the Federation to do something like that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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  20. Burning Hearts of Qo'nOs

    Burning Hearts of Qo'nOs Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This is assuming that the Federation was the one that made 'first contact' with the Barzans. It could have been some other space faring civilization or something as simple as an interstellar trading company made contact with the Barzans initially and exposed them to the existence of the interstellar community. Then the Federation made first contact with that group that weren't restricted by the PM, and boom, Barzans have a meandering route to meet some Starfleeters and eventually someone named Nhan gets sponsorship to Starfleet, and completely bypass any ambiguous Prime Directive rules the Federation makes up as they go along.
     
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