How Critical Was Nimoy's Role?

[Aragorn]

He was critical only in the sense that they wanted to connect past and present, to make it both a sequel and a reboot. If they just wanted to go with a clean slate, he wouldn't have been required.

 

[erebus]

I was thinking maybe Spock Prime regretted all those years of denial that led him to try for Kolinahr and that he had decided that he should guide nuSpock away from that course and into accepting his human side more with the benefits of friendship with his human collegues (did it seem to you that nuSpock was more humourous and friendly with his collegues after his meeting with Spock prime?).

And i agree with previous suggestions that the friendship with Kirk was important for the presevation of the galaxy and success of the Enterprise, etc and what Cubbie said about steering nuSpock away from going back to help Vulcan.

 

[kitsune]

I would've preferred for Nimoy to NOT appear in this film. At the very least, his absence would prevent the astronomically-improbable chance meeting of Kirk and old Spock on Delta Vega.

 

[Darth_Pinche]

I was thinking maybe Spock Prime regretted all those years of denial that led him to try for Kolinahr and that he had decided that he should guide nuSpock away from that course and into accepting his human side more with the benefits of friendship with his human collegues (did it seem to you that nuSpock was more humourous and friendly with his collegues after his meeting with Spock prime?).

And i agree with previous suggestions that the friendship with Kirk was important for the presevation of the galaxy and success of the Enterprise, etc and what Cubbie said about steering nuSpock away from going back to help Vulcan.

I agree that while what we saw a bit more Nimoy than Spock, it fit perfectly and showed a Spock that was comfortable being "the child of two worlds", both logical and emotional. His reaction to Vulcan being destroyed was appropriate, there was nothing he could do so why dwell upon it and openly weep or rage? Yet he is deeply affected, as he told Kirk. Yes, the story could have been told without him, but it would have lacked a heart. Which ironically is what Spock was in this film.

 

[Carpe Occasio]

I started another thread today along these lines because I didn't see yours (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=92402).

For me the movie came to a screeching halt when Kirk finds future Spock on Delta Vega. When any movie has to stop and engage in a narrative, like Spocks mindmeld with Kirk, you've got a problem. The whole back story about a supernova threatening the entire galaxy, red matter, Spock handling the situation instead of Starfleet, Nero blaming Spock, and the convoluted time travel scenario, really slowed things down. The movie didn't get back on tract until Kirk and Scotty beamed out.

Also, future Spock meeting alternate reality Spock at the end was weird (regardless of what happened to Vulcan). Now the universe has two Spocks who know about each other?

The movie would have been better served with less future Spock. It just didn't work well.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

I also had a difficult time understanding Old Spock at times.

His has a lisp that typically implies dentures. Anyone else notice this?

People keep mentioning his dentures in one context or another and I just keep wondering - isn't this guy filthy rich? If for some reason he doesn't want implants, why wouldn't he get well-fit dentures? I dunno, maybe this is really just the best delivery he can manage at nearly 80, dentures or natural teeth notwithstanding.

Watch an interview with Nimoy. He doesn't really have a pronounced lisp in any interview I've seen. I think he just plays 130+ year old Spock as an old man.

As for the topic at hand, Nimoy's Spock is the reason the plot is set in motion, the reason Kirk and Spock become friends, the reason Kirk becomes Captain of the Enterprise, etc. For someone who isn't even in the film that much, it's his movie. He's Spock ex machina.

 

[Mr. Scott]

You got to remember that Nimoy is in his late 70's and it shows. He is about the same age as Reagan was when he left the White House.

Not getting into specifics, but the Nero guy was after Spock and the time travel aspect, so obviously Spock was important to the story.

 

[Classic Fan]

I was thinking maybe Spock Prime regretted all those years of denial that led him to try for Kolinahr and that he had decided that he should guide nuSpock away from that course and into accepting his human side more with the benefits of friendship with his human collegues (did it seem to you that nuSpock was more humourous and friendly with his collegues after his meeting with Spock prime?).

And i agree with previous suggestions that the friendship with Kirk was important for the presevation of the galaxy and success of the Enterprise, etc and what Cubbie said about steering nuSpock away from going back to help Vulcan.

I agree that while what we saw a bit more Nimoy than Spock, it fit perfectly and showed a Spock that was comfortable being "the child of two worlds", both logical and emotional. His reaction to Vulcan being destroyed was appropriate, there was nothing he could do so why dwell upon it and openly weep or rage? Yet he is deeply affected, as he told Kirk. Yes, the story could have been told without him, but it would have lacked a heart. Which ironically is what Spock was in this film.

Not very critical, but...



Who the fuck cares.. Nimoy is back in Trek. I dont give a Womp Rats Arse.

Agreed. Old spock did it perfectly, conveying slight emotion and logic that made him a more mature Spock to what we saw in reunification all those years ago. Ballancing perfectly emotion and logic into one unique Vulcan, like Sybok but, well, the most human soul in the galaxy. To coin a phrase from Kirk.

The way he gave a slight smile when meeting Kirk, Spock and Scotty was greatly acted. So subtle yet, brilliantly obivous. Love it. The ballance of the logic/emotion was perfect.


But yeah, 'Wulcan' is no more, what can he do about it. nothing but live with it. Besides, Old Spock knew Vulcan all his life, he also knew his mother all her life and also his father. Maybe his logical half didnt grieve, as its not logical, but, his human half did due to the compassion he has for other species etc etc, so i guarentee the character was grieving somwhat, Nimoy just didnt show it.

I thought that the exchange between the two Spocks couldve been a lot better. A bit longer and more emotional as the two had lost their respective homes, even though Old Spock knew Vulcan all his years and Young Spock will not. I was expecting a really emotionally charged exchange about lost loves and lives, gained friendships and lost chances and respect and above, gained friendships in the shaddow of this really big loss. But what we got was a kind of 'lets pass the torch for the hell of it' moment.

It was good though that Old Spocks emotions changed his mind about not interacting with Young Spock due to more paradoxes etc, that took guts, but still took compassion as the wake of destruction ripped through Vulcan and took over to get Spock to approach Spock.

There is a lot of passion and emotion in these two Spocks and it couldve been a blinder of a scene with these two fine actors, but it was a wasted opportunity somewhat.

 

[Cyrus]

The scenes with the old Spock could have been written better, they were a little bit off and didn't have the emotional impact I expected from them. I actually liked the ending scene better than the Delta Vega part.

I think Nimoy's part was essential to establish a connection between this movie and previous movies/series, and to provide an easier way of establishing the alternate time line. If he was not going to be in the film then they may have as well done a complete remake, but obviously that was not the intention with this movie. I would have been OK with a complete remake as it would have removed a lot of time travel related exposition, but I prefer the direction they took. This movie having a direct connection with previous Trek is kind of cool.

 

[T'Paul]

I don't understand how Old Spock and Kirk found their way into the same spot on that planet.

I also don't understand why Scotty happened to be a few miles from them on that planet.

 

[kitsune]

Nimoy stole every scene he was in and ran away with the film.

I respectfully disagree.

by giving Scotty the not-yet-existing technology to beam them to the Enterprise.

The events of Star Trek III can't happen now (because Mt. Selaya doesn't exist anymore), so Star Trek IV can't happen, so Scotty can't trade the formula for transparent aluminum...this opens up a huge can of worms

He was necessary just to bridge the old and the new.

I disagree. He was only there to attract those fans who would otherwise not have considered this film that important.

One question I have is this: how did Nero know that Spock would fall through the black hole? And when he would reappear in the past? Nero went through first...

 

[Claudia]

I absolutely loved seeing Nimoy again, although I wondered about that lisp as well.

But the way Spock Prime was introduced could have been handled better. I mean: 1. how long was he on Delta Vega before Kirk's arrival? 2. what a coincidence that Kirk gets stranded on Delta Vega (which BTW I think was an absolutely wrong decision by nuSpock - doesn't the Enterprise have a brig for recalcitrant/mutinous wouldbe-officers?!? Or do they all get ejected out of an airlock?), 3. no mention of any plans Spock might have had himself, 4. how did he escape from Nero? Nero somehow must have gotten hold of Spock's ship (as that's the same one nuSpock flies out of Nero's ship at the end)? 5. granted, Spock set the events in motion, but he definitely wasn't integral to the plot's resolution - he made it easier for the scriptwriters, of course, because they simply had to write a mindmeld-scene instead of having to come up with a course of action that actually lets Kirk and Spock find out on their own...

I also prefered the scene with nuSpock at the end to that on Delta Vega. It could have been expanded on, of course, but it offers a chance at seeing him again.

 

[kitsune]

I absolutely loved seeing Nimoy again, although I wondered about that lisp as well.

But the way Spock Prime was introduced could have been handled better. I mean: 1. how long was he on Delta Vega before Kirk's arrival?

Less than a day. ("What was [25] years for Nero was only seconds for me").

2. what a coincidence that Kirk gets stranded on Delta Vega

Yes, that was ridiculous. I hate plots that rely on astronomically improbable coincidences.

(which BTW I think was an absolutely wrong decision by nuSpock - doesn't the Enterprise have a brig for recalcitrant/mutinous wouldbe-officers?!? Or do they all get ejected out of an airlock?)

Kirk's ejection was not believable, no. He could have simply been thrown in the brig so he could face disciplinary action upon returning to Earth.

3. no mention of any plans Spock might have had himself

Spock had no time to form plans for himself between being sucked into the "black hole" and being captured and summarily deposited on Delta Vega.

4. how did he escape from Nero? Nero somehow must have gotten hold of Spock's ship (as that's the same one nuSpock flies out of Nero's ship at the end)?

Spock did not escape from Nero. Nero waited for Spock to emerge from the "black hole" specifically to deposit him on Delta Vega so he could witness the immediate destruction of Vulcan.

5. granted, Spock set the events in motion, but he definitely wasn't integral to the plot's resolution - he made it easier for the scriptwriters, of course, because they simply had to write a mindmeld-scene instead of having to come up with a course of action that actually lets Kirk and Spock find out on their own...

Correct

 

[Classic Fan]

by giving Scotty the not-yet-existing technology to beam them to the Enterprise.

The events of Star Trek III can't happen now (because Mt. Selaya doesn't exist anymore), so Star Trek IV can't happen, so Scotty can't trade the formula for transparent aluminum...this opens up a huge can of worms

My head hurts. Mummy, make it stop hurting.

However, Mount Seleya does exist. In the other TOS timeline running paralell to this one.

Mind boggling as all this may be, the events still happen in the Shatner Verse but not in the Pine Verse.