How Critical Was Nimoy's Role?

[Samuel T. Cogley]

I'm looking for a discussion about this on several levels.

First, do you feel that Old Spock was really necessary to the story?

And, on a similar level, how does this affect Nimoy's statements in the past about passing on scripts because Spock's role was not meaningful enough?

As for me, I was thrilled to see Spock again, but I was a little disappointed about how underwhelming his role was, and how little emotional impact it had on me (aside from this welling up of emotion I could barely hold back just because I was seeing him on the screen as Spock once more).

I honestly feel that the story could have been told without him, which makes me feel even more like he was shoe-horned in to satisfy/obligate the old fans.

He seemed reduced to some sort of friendly angel or matchmaker. He sits around in a cave for years, stumbles randomly onto Kirk, and then seems more concerned about preserving Kirk and Spock's friendship than he does about saving the galaxy.

I almost wish his goodbye to young Kirk and Scotty on Delta Vega had been his final scene, because the scene near the shuttlecraft seemed even more underwhelming. Old Spock seemed too comfortable, too casual, like some old retired guy who is either going to putter around in the garage or found a Vulcan colony.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the movie. And again, the mere sight of Nimoy as Spock again on the big screen had an emotional impact on me that I cannot quite explain. I had to discreetly wipe away a tear or two.

But I can't help feeling that his role could have been more pivotal, or have had more of an emotional impact.

And I find it hard to make the argument that the movie could not have been made without him.

Thoughts?

 

[Dale]

I may be wrong but I don't think he sat around in the cave for years... just a few days... if that.

I think he was used to good effect. His bemused befuddlement when Kirk showed up (he half-expected Kirk'd come looking for him, remember?) and again when he met young Scotty was quite charming. He provided a sort of wizened bookend to the emotional chaos swirling in young Spock, having achieved the peace young Spock so badly needed... and I think he gently pushed things into a familiar shape without actually meddling to a great degree.

What bothered me most was his apparent lack of concern over the destruction of Vulcan. That final scene should have had something to do with the two Spocks grieving together because here was the only other person in the multiverse who could understand and to whom they could open up, emotionally. Instead Spock Prime made a joke about not saying LL&P to himself.

Also, does Spock Prime know his alternaMother is dead? And how weird is it going to be when he eventually meets Sarek on New Vulcan?

 

[T'Paul]

Totally unnecessary.

You know how sometimes people get alright looking affordable Asian cars, and then stick on a gaudy spoiler to try to make the car look better? Nimoy was like one of those spoilers.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

I also had a difficult time understanding Old Spock at times.

His has a lisp that typically implies dentures. Anyone else notice this?

 

[cubbie]

I thought the shuttle scene was perfect. Young Spock would have left Starfleet to help the remaining Vulcans if it hadn't been for Old Spock.

It was also very touching

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

It was also very touching

I guess it just felt a little too soft for me.

I can't put my finger on exactly what I would have preferred.

Maybe just a little more edge to Nimoy's performance.

I think, in the end, Spock slowly morphed into Leonard Nimoy, just as Kirk slowly morphed into William Shatner.

 

[Michael]

I'm totally with you on this one, Sam. I mean, I love Leonard Nimoy and was thrilled when I heard he was going to be in the movie. But now that I've seen it I think his presence was rather redundant. The whole story could very well have been told without his inclusion.

But that's not the biggest problem I have with Old Spock in this movie. I hate to say it, but I found Leonard Nimoy's acting rather ... hm ... lifeless. Somehow he didn't feel and sound like Spock at all. I'm not quite sure, though, if that is a result of the rather uninspired lines they wrote for him or his portrayal.

I have the greatest respect for the man, really, but I also had the impression that sometimes his upper false teeth (assuming they are false) didn't sit quite right. I know, this must sound rather superficial (which it is) and I don't really had a problem with it, but at times it seemed like he had problems with his false teeth. And somehow that really distracted me.

 

[MichaelStivic]

I think Nimoy was the glue that held the picture together. I don't think this movie could have been made without him. I was enjoying the movie up until he showed up, but I loved the movie once he was on-screen. Having him connected to the events in the Prime universe that changed the timeline and part of the solution to the problem of the movie (getting Kirk in the Captain's chair) was awesome. Having him tell Kirk about how Kirk knew his father in the original timeline was extremely emotional and for Trek fans, tied us back to what we knew.

I can continue gushing about how well I think the writers did with this for pages, so I'll wrap it up. But this movie enabled new fans to come in but gave something very special to long time fans. This Nero character threatened the Federation but he also threatened Star Trek, could have completely destroyed everything we knew about that universe, but Old Spock, with the young crew of the Enterprise stopped him and brought us back to the beginning-- with the Enterprise launching under Kirk's command, in a universe where not everything is known, where there can be suspense, and unpredictability, but that is, at the same time, undeniably Star Trek.

The whole movie felt very new and very familiar at the same time. It was a Valentine for fans and an invitation to everyone else. And the Spock character, including Nimoy, was vital, in my opinion.

Without Nimoy and without the connection to the original universe, it literally would have been a different movie and I'm not sure I'd have liked it.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

I'm totally with you on this one, Sam. I mean, I love Leonard Nimoy and was thrilled when I heard he was going to be in the movie. But now that I've seen it I think his presence was rather redundant. The whole story could very well have been told without his inclusion.

But that's not the biggest problem I have with Old Spock in this movie. I hate to say it, but I found Leonard Nimoy's acting rather ... hm ... lifeless. Somehow he didn't feel and sound like Spock at all. I'm not quite sure, though, if that is a result of the rather uninspired lines they wrote for him or his portrayal.

I have the greatest respect for the man, really, but I also had the impression that sometimes his upper false teeth (assuming they are false) didn't sit quite right. I know, this must sound rather superficial (which it is) and I don't really had a problem with it, but at times it seemed like he had problem with his false teeth. And somehow that really distracted me.

Agreed on all points.

 

[T'Baio]

Nimoy's role was most likely the one that needed a rewrite the most, but the writer's strike precluded that.

Why does Kirk tell Old Spock that coming back in time and changing history is cheating, to which Old Spock says it was a trick he learned from an old friend, when according to the film, Spock came back in time by accident? Yeah...needs, or was already in the middle of, a rewrite.

 

[Morpheus 02]

i agree that Nimoy seemed TOO casual at the end...but i think they were more accomodating to Nimoy.

I think having Nimoy was necessary to really pass the baton on to the "next generation", so that mos of the fans (except for the perpetual naysayers) can enjoy the new series, knowing that it's been passed on with the blessing of (some) of those who helped shaped the original.

In a sense, THIS was the "valentine to the fans".

 

[MichaelStivic]

I think the babbling about Nimoy's teeth is absurd. He's almost 80 years old and Spock in the movie, even for a Vulcan, is very old. Plus, he didn't exactly have time to rush off to the dentist while he was trying to save Romulus or after being knocked around by Nero.

I think the only problem with that last scene is that it needed more time, not necessarily new dialogue, but just some time for embellishment. The whole movie zipped by. It sort of reminded me of the end of Return of the King where all these final character scenes were taking place so fast.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I also had a difficult time understanding Old Spock at times.

His has a lisp that typically implies dentures. Anyone else notice this?

People keep mentioning his dentures in one context or another and I just keep wondering - isn't this guy filthy rich? If for some reason he doesn't want implants, why wouldn't he get well-fit dentures? I dunno, maybe this is really just the best delivery he can manage at nearly 80, dentures or natural teeth notwithstanding.

I suppose the same thing could be asked about a number of successful actors (no, this isn't a Shatner reference) who seem happy enough with unnatural or cheap looking toupees. But it does puzzle me, if his problem is his dentures.

About Spock's part...I honestly don't know. I enjoyed it, and I don't think the whole back-from-the-future storyline would have had much emotional resonance without it, but then I suppose one can ask "couldn't they have elminated time-travel as the source and motivation for the villain altogether?" On some level the answer to a question like that is always "yes," but you're just getting into writing a different story altogether.

Some folks have suggested that his reappearence at the end is a little lame and gratuitous, and that may be so but I imagine the movie would have played awkwardly had he simply materialized in the middle, done his bit and then disappeared. This mods in this forum would have a full-time job this week merging every new "What do you think happened to Spock Prime?" into the pinned "Spock Prime's fate [SPOILER!]" topic.

All of which in no way addresses your question. Oh well, like my father said "It's always something."

 

[Brutal Strudel]

It was also very touching

I guess it just felt a little too soft for me.

I can't put my finger on exactly what I would have preferred.

Maybe just a little more edge to Nimoy's performance.

I think, in the end, Spock slowly morphed into Leonard Nimoy, just as Kirk slowly morphed into William Shatner.

Indeed. I felt that about his performance in the TNG two-parter as well.

 

[Alpha_Geek]

...He (Spock ag) seemed reduced to some sort of friendly angel or matchmaker. He sits around in a cave for years, stumbles randomly onto Kirk, and then seems more concerned about preserving Kirk and Spock's friendship than he does about saving the galaxy....


Thoughts?

My take on it was this. Spock Prime knew he was in his past, and he knew...

Spoiler: Here there be Horta...

Vulcan was gone and there was damn well little he could do about it...

But if anyone could save the galaxy from a crazed, red-matter totin' Romulan miner, who but Kirk, Spock and company?

Besides, those were the only tools at his disposal to attempt any kind of repair or work-around.

Worked for me!

 

[Trilliam]

Well, for what's it's worth, I thought "Old Spock" beautifully underplayed and understated. Whether this person was a Vulcan or Human or whatever, he was very elderly. Sat down and spoken to your 90 year old Nanna or Pop lately?

 

[MichaelStivic]

...He (Spock ag) seemed reduced to some sort of friendly angel or matchmaker. He sits around in a cave for years, stumbles randomly onto Kirk, and then seems more concerned about preserving Kirk and Spock's friendship than he does about saving the galaxy....


Thoughts?

Spock was there for days at the most based on information in the movie.

And I think Spock realized that Kirk and Spock together are what WOULD save the galaxy, in this instance, and in many others.

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

It was a torching-passing thing -- and I think they did it with way more grace than Generations did.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I think they did it with way more grace than Generations did.

Agreed, but then it would be hard to get less graceful than throwing the old guy down a ravine to kill him.

 

[EnsignRicky]

I guess he was pretty critical to this story. I just wish they had come up with a different story that didn't involve any characters, actors or situations from the previous incarnations. Not only would it have avoided all kinds of insane questions, it could have allowed the new crew the opportunity to launch under their own steam freely into their own uncharted galaxy. In short, and I hate to say this word, reboot.