ReadyAndWilling
Fleet Captain
why is this never brought up? how can an organic being not gain some kind of nourishment? it just isn't possible to live from just a drug for more than a few days.
How can the JemHadar live from only the White?
- Thread starter ReadyAndWilling
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In 'Hippocratic Oath' the First of the group of Jem'Hadar states 'we've eaten the same food'.
And the Jem'Hadar infant found aboard DS9 in some wreckage was also given food, after he stated he was hungry.
They probably eat something like Robocop ate, some sort of slob that has essentials for the body, like vitamins, protiens and the like.
And the Jem'Hadar infant found aboard DS9 in some wreckage was also given food, after he stated he was hungry.
They probably eat something like Robocop ate, some sort of slob that has essentials for the body, like vitamins, protiens and the like.
White might be more the just a drug. The white would be the food that the Jem'Hadar "eat." The adult Jem'Hadar don't eat solid food apparently, The Jem'Hadar infant might have consumed solid food because it was the only thing being offered and also because of it's rapid growth
Much of what we eat, our bodies turn into glucose (liquid sugar) which is then introduced into our blood, that how the food in your tummy get out to the cells at the ends of your fingers. The majority of white might simply be a concentrated glucose solution, with the drug being a minor component mixed in. This would account for the color too, glucose solution is milky white.
I wonder what actual in the white drug component? We know that it is an addictive drug that the Jem'Hadar suffer without the constant replenishment of. It seems unlikely that the drug gets them high, the Founders would want them clear headed at all times. Beyond simple control, obey or we'll cut you off, the white might have effects upon the Jem'Hadar that the Founders find to their benefit.
A general effect of simulation and increased awareness perhaps. Like chewing certain leaves has on Humans.
Much of what we eat, our bodies turn into glucose (liquid sugar) which is then introduced into our blood, that how the food in your tummy get out to the cells at the ends of your fingers. The majority of white might simply be a concentrated glucose solution, with the drug being a minor component mixed in. This would account for the color too, glucose solution is milky white.
I wonder what actual in the white drug component? We know that it is an addictive drug that the Jem'Hadar suffer without the constant replenishment of. It seems unlikely that the drug gets them high, the Founders would want them clear headed at all times. Beyond simple control, obey or we'll cut you off, the white might have effects upon the Jem'Hadar that the Founders find to their benefit.
A general effect of simulation and increased awareness perhaps. Like chewing certain leaves has on Humans.
The Jem'Hadar in "Hippocratic Oath" apparently ate food as an experiment, as their First falsely believed that this would be an alternative to subsisting on White.
It's entirely possible the Jem'Hadar routinely eat other things besides White, of course. White is probably designed to serve as all-purpose combat rations in emergencies, but the sheer lack of ingested volume suggests an alternate source for chemical energy is needed. After all, even very energetic chemical storage means tend to be bulky; producing even half the body heat a human emits as a side product of muscular work would call for a big bottle of gasoline over the period of a day let alone a week.
We know the Jem'Hadar can survive on nothing but White for several days and possibly weeks. Big deal; humans can fast on water for weeks and sometimes months, albeit often with lasting physical effects. A Vorta did it, too, in "Rocks and Shoals", apparently surviving better than his Jem'Hadar chattel. Food supplies certainly aren't in contradiction with what we see on screen, and replicators would provide those in most conditions.
Timo Saloniemi
It's entirely possible the Jem'Hadar routinely eat other things besides White, of course. White is probably designed to serve as all-purpose combat rations in emergencies, but the sheer lack of ingested volume suggests an alternate source for chemical energy is needed. After all, even very energetic chemical storage means tend to be bulky; producing even half the body heat a human emits as a side product of muscular work would call for a big bottle of gasoline over the period of a day let alone a week.
We know the Jem'Hadar can survive on nothing but White for several days and possibly weeks. Big deal; humans can fast on water for weeks and sometimes months, albeit often with lasting physical effects. A Vorta did it, too, in "Rocks and Shoals", apparently surviving better than his Jem'Hadar chattel. Food supplies certainly aren't in contradiction with what we see on screen, and replicators would provide those in most conditions.
Timo Saloniemi
It always struck me as self-defeating to produce a race of warriors with such an obvious weakness. The Vorta were perfectly happy to serve the Dominion without any similar engineered flaws, aside from the limitations of cloning. I don't know how the Jem Hadar were generated but since they were all apparently individuals, cloning doesn't seem likely.
Well it matters because their enemies can, oh I don't know, bomb the manufacturing plant that makes all the white in that particular quadrant of the galaxy?
From the only Jem'Hadar vessel we've been inside for a period had no replicators according to Miles. Which would make them reliant on supply pick ups of food much like the White, assuming that if the ship did have a replicator it wasn't irreversible damaged in the crash or removed for study.
The thing with White-dependent Jem'Hadar is that they can't backfire, at least not too badly. With strengths like theirs, a weakness just plain has to be built in, a dead man's switch for those who aren't dead quite yet and don't wish to be.
It's not an issue of loyalty to the Founders - it's an issue of controllability when the field troops have a very fuzzy idea of the actual will of the Founders and depend on the Vorta for it.
Timo Saloniemi
It's not an issue of loyalty to the Founders - it's an issue of controllability when the field troops have a very fuzzy idea of the actual will of the Founders and depend on the Vorta for it.
Timo Saloniemi
I don't buy that. One thing you can usually depend on in an army is loyalty to whoever they are fighting for. It's an essential part of being a fighing unit. If there was any doubt over their loyalty, they would have easily overcome their Vorta and/or taken control of the distribution of white from source. The fact that they didn't do this would indicate they were loyal. In which case the dead man's switch was redundant and an unnecessary weakness.
Actually, on occasion the Jem'hadar did kill Vorta (including the first Weyoun we meet, I believe). And non-canonically at least one went rogue when his loyalty to the Founders was subverted via other means...though in that particular case the Jem'hadar wasn't addicted to the White, which may have lessened their loyalty to begin with.
I can't see why the Founders wouldn't ensure that the White not only was required for the vast majority of Jem'hadar but in turn instilled a (greater) sense of loyalty.
The best drugs make you kindly-disposed towards their dealers.
I can't see why the Founders wouldn't ensure that the White not only was required for the vast majority of Jem'hadar but in turn instilled a (greater) sense of loyalty.
The best drugs make you kindly-disposed towards their dealers.
I personally don't see much of a problem with them living on Ketracel white - afaik real life human astronaughts currently live on nasty slushy food mixes which incorporate all their required dietry needs - so a genetically engineered non human creature living on a single mixed substance in the distant future seems very plausible to me.
Do we know where that pipe goes that the white flows into? Some kind of stomach or maybe a blood stream? I'd think flowing into the blood would be the more efficient - which would explain the lack of volume required.
Come to think of it you never see a fat Jem'hadar, perhaps white is merely a Slimfast shake!
Do we know where that pipe goes that the white flows into? Some kind of stomach or maybe a blood stream? I'd think flowing into the blood would be the more efficient - which would explain the lack of volume required.
Come to think of it you never see a fat Jem'hadar, perhaps white is merely a Slimfast shake!
If the tube goes into the bloodstream, the Jem'Hadar must have very robust hearts! A human heart would seize immediately at receiving such a barrage of giant air bubbles...
But that's the point: the dead man's switch is necessary in case the loyalty gets misplaced. After all, the Jem'Hadar on the field have no cues as to what the Founders want of them, and can develop dangerous ideas either all on their own (they are capable of independent thought, but are aggressive idiots by philosophy) or because their immediate masters don't serve the best interests of the Founders unquestionably (as is often confirmed).
The average Jem'Hadar won't have seen a Founder, ever. He doesn't know who he is fighting for, he only believes he does.
In any case, the loyalty of an army to you is hardly something you can depend on, unless you pay them well enough. You might depend on them being loyal to a cause you have propagated into their thoughts (say, protect the homes and the apple pies), but even then it's not uncommon for the army in the field to decide that the best way to do that is to ignore your orders because the cause alone suffices for leadership.
Timo Saloniemi
But that's the point: the dead man's switch is necessary in case the loyalty gets misplaced. After all, the Jem'Hadar on the field have no cues as to what the Founders want of them, and can develop dangerous ideas either all on their own (they are capable of independent thought, but are aggressive idiots by philosophy) or because their immediate masters don't serve the best interests of the Founders unquestionably (as is often confirmed).
The average Jem'Hadar won't have seen a Founder, ever. He doesn't know who he is fighting for, he only believes he does.
In any case, the loyalty of an army to you is hardly something you can depend on, unless you pay them well enough. You might depend on them being loyal to a cause you have propagated into their thoughts (say, protect the homes and the apple pies), but even then it's not uncommon for the army in the field to decide that the best way to do that is to ignore your orders because the cause alone suffices for leadership.
Timo Saloniemi
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