How can future shows retcon the errors of Star Trek Picard?
- Thread starter Garak234
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Parapsychic Plus these days.
I think they screwed up their calculations if they think your death in 2013 would affect a future, hundreds of years in the future, where 500 million lives would be saved on Dozaria VI.
Your Life, shouldn't affect that many people, hundreds of years in the future.
I'm 99.999% certain of that.
If you're limitations of "Problem Solving" to save lives requires somebody to die in the past and to remain dead.
You're piss poor at imagining solutions to saving lives.
You go on and save all the lives you want...in your head canon.
Don't expect me to trust the process when the only limiter is the ends justify the means.
Is it so inconceivable that the uninterrupted line of my descendants would include Ghrashthok Blarrfx, the most incompetent gunner in the Nyberrite Alliance who would accidentally glass the surface of Dozaria VI with a quantum torpedo barrage in 2517 when they fall asleep on the weapons console?
Or rather a bit more seriously (given that poor Ghrashtok only needs to be woken up by a temporal agent before he commits the deed), that my death would lead to one of my friends meeting a family member of mine at my 2013 funeral and their uninterrupted line of descendants would include the Starfleet captain whose actions save the planet from an asteroid impact in 2431?
You're damn straight that I'll go on doing that.
If your life was in danger "Old Mixer", within my ST: Universe, I'll be sure to save it.
I want you to live to a nice genetically enhanced life to the ripe old age of 165 Earth Years Old.
Where your genetically enhanced human bodies aging would slow post puberty and enjoy the long fruits of slowed physical aging on the inside / outside.
In my world, when you're 36 y/o, you'll look like a 26½ y/o with the vitality of a 23⅓ y/o due to genetically enhanced and slowed aging.
When you're actually 50 y/o that looks like a 33½ y/o with the vitality of a 28 y/o due to genetically enhanced and slowed aging.
When you're 75 y/o that looks like a 46 y/o with the vitality of a 36⅓ y/o due to genetically enhanced and slowed aging.
When you're 102 y/o that looks like a 59½ y/o with the vitality of a 45⅓ y/o due to genetically enhanced and slowed aging.
And you don't have to worry about your hair going gray in my universe.
By the time your hair starts transitioning to gray, you'll have the final 100 days to live with 50 days to transition from normal hair color to gray, then another 50 days of full gray hair.
Only in the final 100 days will you experience accelerated aging.
Before that point in time, you'll live a LONG, fruitful adult life full of happiness, adventure, journy, etc.
Or whatever you would want to do with it.
Ok, that's fine. I hope you're happy when I bring your family members back from the dead due to some traitorous StarFleet Admiral. Maybe then, you'll show some appreciation.
If the user falls asleep, the computer should lock the consoles automatically and no actions would be allowed to be taken.
That's poor computer interface design, and you know it. Especially in the future when the computers should know the physical status of the user and not allow a user, who is not in a fit state, to use the weapons console.
Do you think there's only one StarFleet Captain out there who can save a planet from an asteroid impact?
Stopping Asteroid Impacts is childs play for a StarFleet captain and many, upon many Captains have done that as a early exercise in their long Captain-ing career
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Death is accepted as apart of life.
No, I won't. Because there is no compassion in how this technology is being used. It's suck it up and deal with it. I'm tired of the rudeness of being told that technology is awesome and you should have no reservations.
Amazing.
Depends on who you talk to, and how it occurs.
Natural death due to old age, sure.
Unnatural death, that's to be debated.
Fine, should we leave your loved one out of it from being rescued when we go to undo the horrible events?
Or should we ask them personally if they want to be saved from tragic imminent death? Since their own life is on the line and all.
I'm sure they'll be surprised to hear that you don't want them to live and would've preferred for them to die in said horrible tragic incident and all to preserve the time line because "It's the natural order of things".
It's amazing how little grattidue I get from you when it comes to genuinely wanting to help YOU out.
Maybe your loved one would be more appreciative of not dying in said horrible incident and just move on with life without YOU in it.
You obviously want them dead and all that. So why would they want to continue living with you after they find out that you wanted them to stay dead because "It's the natural order of things" and "Time Travel is horrible and shouldn't be used because you fear the long term consequences of said usage".
They'll most likely move away from you and never speak to you again after that.
I guess it's on me for trying to be sarcastic on the internet, especially trying to follow up my original sarcasm with yet more sarcasm.
I won't indulge you by figuring out a specifically hitherto unknown subspace phenomena that only this specific captain would've discovered because of his previous encounter with a lesser-known species and blah blah blah. You know what I meant.
The entire point I'm trying to get across (apparently rather poorly) that no action happens in a vacuum. You can't assume that if you change something in the past, then only that specific thing will be altered and everything else will stay the same, even if fiction almost exclusively portrays it that way. If you go back to change something you did when you were thirteen, your life WILL end up wildly different from what it originally was, because all the decisions you've made in your life follow each other and build upon and influence each other. The memories attached to that decision you made at 13 could be the deciding factor of where you would want to go to college, and you could end up going back to your present to find that you have an entirely different set of friends and a completely different job.
I think we're done here. It's clear any reasonable understanding is buried by snark and rudeness.
Thanks for the discussion.
That's on you. I take computer tech SERIOUSLY.
I know what you meant, doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
That's the beauty of IDIC (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations).
We don't have to all be in agreement on how to do things, we can all co-exist, yet be drastically different people with different beliefs, ways of doing things, actions, etc.
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on you as an individual.
But those are the choices you choose to make as a Time Traveler, and you'll live with the consequences of said choices.
Good / Bad.
If you're afraid of that, you don't deserve to mess with time.
No one deserves to mess with time.
I've been very polite to you, the only thing I've gotten in return was constantly being attacked, insulted, & berated for having a difference of opinion on how to handle a problem.
No-where in this conversation, did you even entertain the thought or open your mind to the benefits of what my solutions could bring to you, and society as a greater whole.
You only see the down-sides and fear of using said tools and disregard any of the benefits.
That's on you. I've tried to open your mind, but you remain closed to it to the end.
We'll have to agree to disagree
I guess you don't support IDIC in this case, since I'm doing something you abhore and can't let bygones be bygones.
I'm more than happy to go on my time traveling ways and you can remain stuck in linear time.
Where? I have stated my opinion. And called a luddite for my trouble. And then called ungrateful, and had assumption after assumption heaped at me for not agreeing that time travel is the best solution.
So, no, I don't agree. And I get told "tough. Time travel exists; sucks to be you. Glad you like relatives dying." That sounds super nice way to encourage me to see this point of view.
You called me a "Fascist" on multiple occaisions through out this conversation.
I've done nothing but try to help UFP society, and I get accused of being Authoritarian in nature for thinking outside of the box.
Calling you a Luddite is far less of an insult then being called a "Fascist" on my end.
Time travel exists because it's already happened countless times in Star Trek.
It's still happening thanks to the writers in charge in the Kurtzman era.
The only show that hasn't had significant amounts of Time Travel is "Lower Decks".
Time Travel was only mentioned as the adventures of a different StarShip, not our protagonists ship.
There's still plenty of time for time travel to happen again in the future on the USS Cerritos.
It's a common trope already. Nearly everybody else has accepted the existence of Time Travel in Star Trek.
You just seem to hate on it.
Well, you didn't seem to be appreciative of me saving your family members.
I thought you would appreciate the fact that I saved them.
I was actually hopeful that you would show thanks and appreciation for doing you a solid by saving YOUR LOVED ONE.
But nope, you stated:
Talk about being Cold Hearted and Calculating.
How is their no compassion for YOUR LOVED ONE, when I'm trying to save them FOR YOU.
YOU ARE THE PRIMARY BENEFACTOR.
And the response I get from you:
How do you think YOUR LOVED ONE will feel after they hear that come out of your mouth.
I would be DEVASTATED that you care that much more about "The Bloody Timeline" then said loved one.
That would be a VERY NATURAL reaction if they heard those words come out of your mouth.
I thought you loved them, they're supposed to be "YOUR LOVED ONES".
But I guess "Love for the integrity of the timeline & time/space" trumps your personal love for them.
Probing in to someone's mind for thought crime comes across as a fascist and authoritarian idea. The idea is fascist, not you.
Using time travel to spy on citizens strikes me as the same.
I learned it from Star Trek.
I accept it.
I also don't like it and find it a poor solution rife with unintended consequences.
I wouldn't have to time travel to spy on citizens if we can easily figure out who the Mole / Double Agent is via Telepathy.
A few seconds of Telepathy is far less invasive then having to scrub somebody's personal timeline.
And it's the quickest & easiest way to stop Moles/Double Agents within the Government / StarFleet.
It took the UFP over 15+ years to figure out who caused the problem of the Martian Attack.
They did figure it out, now we can solve it.
It's easier to stop the problem before it happens. But you poo-pooed the idea before it even can occur.
Part of thinking outside of the box is using all available tools, but you automatically shot it down without even considering it.
And then you found reasoning / excuses to justify the loss of life.
You learned the wrong lessons.
You should've learned to care about other people, saving lives, helping people, making society better, improving our lives, making things safer for us in the UFP.
I see you either intentionally learned the wrong lessons, or have a warped sense of values as to what is important in life.
Sometimes, even unnatural preventable death serves a purpose in the greater scheme of things. For example, if Edith Keeler didn't get run over and killed, then the Nazis would have won WWII. So which is it, deal with her loved ones having to mourn a preventable death, or Nazi victory.
Or you could look at the old saying "when your time's up, your time's up." Like in the 2002 film adaptation of The Time Machine, the lead character's girlfriend is killed in a robbery, so he invents time travel to save her by having her be in a completely different spot at the moment she was robbed. Which results in a horse trampling her to death instead. He tries a few other attempts to save her, all of which result in her death as well. She wasn't fated to live past that moment.
That was how the story was written. It was intentionally written so that Edith Keeler would be a linch pin in WW2 history.
That's how that story is written, they choose to make the story about how that poor girl is fated to die, no matter the circumstances.
Those are the stories they choose to write.
Doesn't mean I care for them or enjoy them.
There are other stories where Time Travel is used for the benefits of our heroes and society, I choose to use those as my basis for my head canon.
I'm not a fan of only portraying using Time Travel technology as bad.
There's too much of that in our media, I want more positive portrayals. So I'm going that route.
You can enjoy your pessimists view on Time Travel.
I'm going with the optimists view.
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