How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

[PsychoPere]

The Spaarti cloning technology was never used for the production of clone troopers during Palpatine's rule. [...]

Towards the end of the Clone Wars, Palpatine set up secret cloning facilities on Centax-2, a Coruscant moon. Arkanian Microtechnologies, the corporation that ran these facilities, used Spaarti cloning technology. The first batches of Centax troopers were being incorporated into the GAR shortly before Order 66 and the declaration of the Empire.

It was discovery of increasing numbers of these inferior clones that led a small group of Fett clones to put into action a plan to desert.

 

[cooleddie74]

Let me say that I'm glad we've turned this train wreck into an actual, nerdy discussion of SW lore. Kudos to everybody. It looks as if we can actually rescue this thing after all.

 

[PsychoPere]

The OP would probably be quite disgusted to learn that my current favorite SW comic is Agent of the Empire - a spy series following an Imperial Intelligence agent who commits espionage, assassinations, etc. for the security of the Empire.

The first issue of the second story arc comes out this Wednesday.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Let me say that I'm glad we've turned this train wreck into an actual, nerdy discussion of SW lore. Kudos to everybody. It looks as if we can actually rescue this thing after all.

Oh, there's still a chance to screw it all up. We're not talking minutiae of the Star Wars universe, soon it's going to turn into a Prequel versus Original thread or What The Hell does that Prophecy MEAN?

Give it time. We can screw this one up yet.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, I was in Optimist Mode when I posted that. This is the TrekBBS. There's still time to call Jar Jar a racist stereotype and send the entire thread up in a mushroom cloud.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yeah, I was in Optimist Mode when I posted that. This is the TrekBBS. There's still time to call Jar Jar a racist stereotype and send the entire thread up in a mushroom cloud.

Mesa gettin' very very scared!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If you accept the premise that there can be a just war, and that the cause the Rebels support is just, then you also accept there are circumstances where civilian casualties are acceptable, like with the destruction of a massive planet-exploding military installation.

Although I'm sure that the Rebel Alliance did wrestle with the pain of that decision. Of course we were never going to see this onscreen, but it's almost certain that the thought of innocent people dying was a terrible burden on them. That's what makes the Rebels different from the Empire (among a lot of other things).

You can argue that using the clones is the right call to make, sure, but it is something that requires a little further argument beyond 'can there be a just war.'

About the clones - as I understand it, the clone troopers not only obeyed orders without question, but actively enjoyed their work and considered it an honor to die in battle. So giving them that opportunity can't be considered evil, could it? The clone troopers knew exactly what they were created for, and why. And we saw Jedi generals leading them into battle in the field. That's got to count for something...

It's like the Dish of the Day in HHGTTG. You can argue all you want about the morality of eating meat, but if your butcher cow clearly WANTS to be eaten, why not oblige it?

 

[scotpens]

The Visitors in the original 1983-85 incarnation of V were modeled on the Nazis. They even had a symbol on their craft and uniforms that was a modified swastika.

Jane Badler: racist and anti-Semite.

But she was a hot racist and anti-Semite!

True story: When my stepdaughter was about eight, she dressed up as the Wicked Witch of the West for Halloween and the public school's "diversity coordinator" gave her a lecture about how her costume was hate speech against Wiccans.

Well, when a school actually has a paid employee with the title of "diversity coordinator," that person has to justify their bullshit job somehow.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Visitors in the original 1983-85 incarnation of V were modeled on the Nazis. They even had a symbol on their craft and uniforms that was a modified swastika.

Jane Badler: racist and anti-Semite.

But she was a hot racist and anti-Semite!

Achtüng, Baby!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Jane Badler: racist and anti-Semite.

But she was a hot racist and anti-Semite!

Ah, memories.

 

[datagal]

I'm going back to reality now. Have fun people.

Reality is just a crutch for people who can't handle SciFi/Fantasy

Oh.

Thanks for explaining that to me.

 

[Greg Cox]

Hot or not, what she did to that gerbil was inexcusable. How could any decent person dress as a Visitor after watching that?

 

[Klaus]

I recall reading that the insects for the banquet scene were candy and gummies.. I wonder what the gerbil was?

 

[The Wormhole]

You know what's hilarous? Looking through this thread and noticing an ad for a stormtrooper hoodie on it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Hot or not, what she did to that gerbil was inexcusable.

I'll take "Sentences VERY dangerous to take out of context" for $1000, Alex...

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I was an innocent before the dark times, before the Darth Vader t-shirt.

Before that, all I cared about was podracing my Big Wheel through the deserts of Southern California and tinkering with fantastic Lego machines. But after I donned that 100% cotton skin of evil everything changed. I cut off my cousin's hand and watched him fall out of my treehouse after he refuse to join my club. I enslaved the Wookiee in the picture. I went into my sister's forest-painted room and killed all of her teddy bears. I started choking my friends for even the most insignificant of failures, like bringing me Hydrox cookies when I wanted Oreos. I over-dramatically screamed "Noooooooooooooooo!!!" in a Mufasa voice whenever I didn't get my way.

I was eventually able to break the cycle by throwing my teacher into a seemingly bottomless dumpster after he accidentally electrocuted some kid in lab class, but it doesn't silence the screams in my head from all those I killed while under the sway of that terrible t-shirt.

 

[Greg Cox]

^ This should be a PSA . . . to save others from the Dark Side.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Thanks to poor writing, it's unclear exactly why Mace had a change of heart. Perhaps he had a vision of the future that would result were Palpatine to stand trial. In any case, it was only because of the treasonous manipulations of Chancellor Palpatine that Mace Windu found it necessary to choose to summarily execute him.

Honestly I think it was because they found out he was more powerful that they expected I mean he did kill 3 Jedi Masters in like 2 seconds.

 

[cooleddie74]

Thanks to poor writing, it's unclear exactly why Mace had a change of heart. Perhaps he had a vision of the future that would result were Palpatine to stand trial. In any case, it was only because of the treasonous manipulations of Chancellor Palpatine that Mace Windu found it necessary to choose to summarily execute him.

Honestly I think it was because they found out he was more powerful that they expected I mean he did kill 3 Jedi Masters in like 2 seconds.

This.

It seemed like a sudden and justified act of self-preservation to me. Get rid of Palpatine/Darth Sidious and not only would Mace have guaranteed the safety his own life but the Republic would have been saved as well and freed of rule by a exceptionally dangerous practicioner of the Dark Side.

Plus, you can't discount the role adrenaline plays in decisions like that and the fact that Mace was a recognized master of the Vaapad form of lightsaber combat, the one form of Jedi combat that skirts the closest to the Dark Side in intensity and violence.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Thanks to poor writing, it's unclear exactly why Mace had a change of heart. Perhaps he had a vision of the future that would result were Palpatine to stand trial. In any case, it was only because of the treasonous manipulations of Chancellor Palpatine that Mace Windu found it necessary to choose to summarily execute him.

Honestly I think it was because they found out he was more powerful that they expected I mean he did kill 3 Jedi Masters in like 2 seconds.

Yeah, that seemed like part of it.

Plus, you can't discount the role adrenaline plays in decisions like that and the fact that Mace was a recognized master of the Vaapad form of lightsaber combat, the one form of Jedi combat that skirts the closest to the Dark Side in intensity and violence.

And this occurred to me, too.

The reason I said that maybe Mace had a vision was because he said [http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-Revenge-of-the-Sith.html], "He has too much control of the Senate and the Courts." If he really thought that before the fight, then why settle for arresting him before? Ergo, perhaps something was revealed to Mace during the fight.

Something clearly changed during the fight. But being unclear as to what it was exactly (and the fact that so many other things in the film are unclear) is why I think ROTS deserves some demerits for poor writing. It's difficult to judge whether Mace was really inadvertently turning to the Dark Side, since we don't really know him as a character to begin with.