How big is Starfleet?

[jmampilly]

I am well aware that other threads have been created in regards to this topic, but wish to see fresh speculation!

Starfleet is portrayed in TNG as a small-ish force of around 1000 vessels. Most of those vessels are indicated to be older Miranda-Class vessels. In DS9, however, Starfleet is portrayed as a significantly larger force, somewhere above 10,000 vessels. I myself am inclined to think Starfleet generally has between 20,000 and 30,000 ships, because I find it hard to believe an entity as large and economically powerful as the Federation, with opponents like the Klingons and Romulans to deal with, would maintain a fleet of only 1000-7000 vessels, especially if those vessels are older Miranda-type starships.

What do you guys think?

 

[C.E. Evans]

It always depends on the story. Starfleet will always be either huge or small depending on dramatic necessity with usually only the hero ship the only vessel within range to do anything anyway.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yep, as big as it needs to be.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Or as small.

 

[Mister Spock]

Well, it seems that the majority of people we meet in the show are Starfleet or civilian contractors or scientists working for Starfleet. Like Kosinski in Where No One Has Gone Before or Doctor Stubbs in Evolution.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The 22nd century Enterprise's number was 01, Voyager's number was 74656. That's almost 75k of Starfleet-registered starships, science vessels, shuttles and frigates over 250 years of in-universe time (and with active lifespans ranging from 10 to 100 years, depending on the writers) between ENT and Voyager. Most of which are guaranteed to not be in the same quadrant as our heroes when something major comes up

 

[T'Girl]

The 22nd century Enterprise's number was 01, Voyager's number was 74656.

We know at the time of the the NX-01 that Starfleet had other ships, we saw them. So we can't go simply by the hull numbers.

Also at some point (or always) Starfleet started giving individual hull numbers to large shuttlecraft like the runabouts.

During the time of TOS I think Starfleet would have had over ten thousand ship, they would have been a widely mixed bag, in addition to the big heavily armed multi-mission ships (like the Enterprise) there would have been cargo, transports, pure science, pure combatants, etc.

 

[The Wormhole]

Starfleet has thousands of ships, but the loss of 39 is considered half the fleet, and the Enterprise is the only one ever in the vicinity of Earth, despite being on deep space exploration.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well, it seems that the majority of people we meet in the show are Starfleet or civilian contractors or scientists working for Starfleet. Like Kosinski in Where No One Has Gone Before or Doctor Stubbs in Evolution.

That's because Starfleet is their "profession" so it makes sense they would meet others in the same "business".

 

[jmampilly]

Starfleet has thousands of ships, but the loss of 39 is considered half the fleet, and the Enterprise is the only one ever in the vicinity of Earth, despite being on deep space exploration.

I believe the loss of 39 ships considered a loss of half the home fleet, meaning ships based around Earth. I am not sure if an entity as large as the Federation could realistically have only 78 ships in its fleet. Even further, Dr. Bashir in DS9 refers to the loss of 70 ships as a painful loss, and that "the Federation cannot keep taking losses like this" this is a direct indication that the fleet must consist of well over 78 ships.

 

[Galileo7]

It always depends on the story. Starfleet will always be either huge or small depending on dramatic necessity with usually only the hero ship the only vessel within range to do anything anyway.

Agree. Well said.

 

[PicardSpeedo]

Starfleet has thousands of ships, but the loss of 39 is considered half the fleet, and the Enterprise is the only one ever in the vicinity of Earth, despite being on deep space exploration.

This.

 

[T'Girl]

^ The TOS series of movies would seem to depict the Enterprise as being stationed (or under refit) in Earth orbit and deploying from there, and not being assigned to deep space exploration missions.

One possibility in FC was that the Enterprise did take some time (days?) to reach Earth from the RNZ to battle the Borg.

 

[USS Triumphant]

By the turn of the 25th century, Starfleet proper contains around 40,000 ships and runabouts in service, and something like a tenth of those are modern ships of the line - what we would really consider Starships. Starfleet also has 24 Deep Space stations, and 1108 misc other starbases and outposts suitable for docking with any size and class of ship operated by Starfleet.

Then there are another 100,000 or so ships that are Starfleet reserve or merchant marine, consisting of the planetary fleets for each world of the Federation, and merchant ships with sufficient clearance (owned by or operated by former Starfleet officers, for example) to be armed with low-end military grade equipment. Private concerns and planetary governments also operated an additional 7600+ bases and mining and colonization platforms - with over 1200 of those in the asteroid belts of the Vulcan home system, alone, and almost 400 in the Sol System belt.

Source: Out of someone's posterior (in this case, mine), just like any other numbers you will come across. :P

 

[Metryq]

I preferred the frontier feel of the early TOS episodes. In "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" Kirk tells Capt. Christopher "There are only twelve like it in the fleet" (referring to the Enterprise). That doesn't mean Starfleet and the Federation have only that dozen ships; just that Constitution class starships are so exotic or expensive that only twelve are on hand.

The Iotians tinkered one together far faster than Starfleet ever expected.

 

[PicardSpeedo]

^ The TOS series of movies would seem to depict the Enterprise as being stationed (or under refit) in Earth orbit and deploying from there, and not being assigned to deep space exploration missions.

One possibility in FC was that the Enterprise did take some time (days?) to reach Earth from the RNZ to battle the Borg.

I don't know...from what we've seen of Starfleet and their ineptitude toward all matters Borg, I seriously doubt that a protracted battle in which they fight the Borg over a course of several days would result in the loss of only 39 vessels. Either the Enterprise has a quantum slipstream drive, or the RNZ is only about 10 minutes from Earth.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

That doesn't mean Starfleet and the Federation have only that dozen ships; just that Constitution class starships are so exotic or expensive that only twelve are on hand.

Or there were only 13 Constitutions that were fitted for exploration missions.

Either the Enterprise has a quantum slipstream drive, or the RNZ is only about 10 minutes from Earth.

Well they did have to fight a war with the Romulans in that general area with considerably slower ships.

 

[Metryq]

Or there were only 13 Constitutions that were fitted for exploration missions.

It amounts to the same thing. A frontier ship outfitted to deal with anything far from possible aid would probably be a most exotic ship. That suggests—barring "non canon" creations like the dreadnought in Franz Joseph's manual—best engines, sensors, weapons, support facilities, and a very competitively selected crew. Later episodes relaxed things to make them more milk run, more routine, traveling the shipping lanes.

And Kirk said 12, not 13.

 

[T'Girl]

One possibility in FC was that the Enterprise did take some time (days?) to reach Earth from the RNZ to battle the Borg.

... I seriously doubt that a protracted battle in which they fight the Borg over a course of several days would result in the loss of only 39 vessels. Either the Enterprise has a quantum slipstream drive, or the RNZ is only about 10 minutes from Earth.

I was referring to the movie First Contact, and not the episode Best of Both Worlds.

Picard orders a course for Earth at maximum warp shortly after the fleet initially engaged the Borg in the Typhon Sector, we don't really know how far that sector is from Earth.

So the Enterprise's journey to Earth might have taken multiple day or even over a week, and still had her arrive only shortly after the Borg cube did.

I believe (and it pure conjecture on my part) that there was a running battle with the Borg cube all the way to Earth, with Starfleet ships being damaged and destroyed, and fresh ships joining the battle. It's not impossible to imagine the cube itself being damage and either having to slow or even periodically being knocked out of warp.

While Riker did order a red alert prior to leaving the RNZ, there could be reasons for that other than the ship would intercept the Borg a short time later.

There's no way to tell how many ships were destroyed in FC, other than the ones we saw/heard being destroyed.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Angry Fanboy

And Kirk said 12, not 13.

Kirk said "a dozen like her in the fleet" - so a dozen (12) plus the Enterprise herself makes thirteen.