How Are There Only 10,000 Vulcans Left?
- Thread starter sonak
- Start date
So, maybe 15 - 20k?
I could buy that if NuSpock didn't follow up that estimate with his line about being a member of an endangered species. The placement of that line suggests connecting it with the previously mentioned very small number.
The endangered species line is silly though because 10,000 intelligent creatures doesn't really constitute being endangered.
I guess that depends on the level of genetic diversity required for Vulcans to survive a disease outbreak, doesn't it?
Not unless all their eggs are in one basket.
First we need to eliminate the non-sense that Vulcans aren't explorers. We see that contradicted in episodes like The Immunity Syndrome, Carbon Creek and Take Me Out to the Holosuite and the film Star Trek: First Contact.
This is a race that has had some form of interstellar travel for 3,000 years. It's just goes against common sense to think they don't have some major colony worlds somewhere.
Then Spock says the population of Vulcan is six billion...
If we were to say that 0.001 percent of Vulcans lived off planet that would give us a total of six million Vulcans. I'd say Spock was being a bit dramatic.
We know that Tuvok is from a Vulcan Lunar Colony, humans have fifty-million people living on the moon 400 years after the first manned spaceflight.
This is a race that has had some form of interstellar travel for 3,000 years. It's just goes against common sense to think they don't have some major colony worlds somewhere.
Then Spock says the population of Vulcan is six billion...
If we were to say that 0.001 percent of Vulcans lived off planet that would give us a total of six million Vulcans. I'd say Spock was being a bit dramatic.
We know that Tuvok is from a Vulcan Lunar Colony, humans have fifty-million people living on the moon 400 years after the first manned spaceflight.
Star Trek: First Contact said:
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Yet Delta Vega, in eyeshot of Vulcan, is manned by one human and one... thing.
I don't think there's evidence Vulcans had interstellar capability for 3000 years. The Vulcan/Romulan schism was 1900 years prior (quoted -2000 from TNG, -1800 from ENT) and the old novels postulated that journey was flown on sublight generational ships at relativistic speeds.
Yeah, you'd expect Vulcan worlds with populations of millions, but common sense and Star Trek have never really gone together. Tut, tut - you'll be demanding a well-defended Earth next
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I don't think there's evidence Vulcans had interstellar capability for 3000 years. The Vulcan/Romulan schism was 1900 years prior (quoted -2000 from TNG, -1800 from ENT) and the old novels postulated that journey was flown on sublight generational ships at relativistic speeds.
Yeah, you'd expect Vulcan worlds with populations of millions, but common sense and Star Trek have never really gone together. Tut, tut - you'll be demanding a well-defended Earth next
.Havinf Delta Vega be in the Vulcan system makes a lot more sense than the original one did. A planet, just a stones throw from "the edge of the galaxy" that the ore ships only visit every twenty years. How long have the ships been going out there and nobody has gone 1 days travel past it and noticed the big purple swirly thing that turns people into gods?
Yet Delta Vega, in eyeshot of Vulcan, is manned by one human and one... thing.
I don't think there's evidence Vulcans had interstellar capability for 3000 years. The Vulcan/Romulan schism was 1900 years prior (quoted -2000 from TNG, -1800 from ENT) and the old novels postulated that journey was flown on sublight generational ships at relativistic speeds.
Yeah, you'd expect Vulcan worlds with populations of millions, but common sense and Star Trek have never really gone together. Tut, tut - you'll be demanding a well-defended Earth next
The temple at P'Jem is three thousand years old. Which would indicate an ability to cross interstellar distances.
It's obvious that Vulcan didn't have offworld colonies. It would be like someone surviving New York being destroyed and claiming that Americans were endangered.
if Vulcan had offworld colonies and their numbers are so low, why would old Spock have to locate a word for them to live on?
It's 10,000 (more or less).
if Vulcan had offworld colonies and their numbers are so low, why would old Spock have to locate a word for them to live on?
It's 10,000 (more or less).
Spock would seem to be specifically be referring to the planet Vulcan's immediate former population when he spoke of ten thousand (Vulcan) survivors, and not Vulcanoids in general.
Consider this, if say the United Kingdom was destroyed except for ten thousand people, your really couldn't say "well yes, but there are plenty of Americans and Australians around." The thing is those people are not British, not culturally.
As the planet Vulcan was about to collapse, Spock's personal priority wasn't saving the maximum number of Vulcans (he delegated that task to a unnamed subordinate), Spock was intent upon saving his world's culture.
It's possible that emigrants from Vulcan aren't always considered to be "ethnically Vulcan." Or at least not in the eyes of nuSpock. Yes they are Vulcanoids, but Romulans are Vulcanoids without being Vulcans.
Interbreeding with Romulans might have produced more Vulcanoids, but not Vulcans. Even if the survivors produced children with people from Vulcan colonies, but would these new children grow to be cultural Vulcans? If these new children failed to be true "ethnic" Vulcans, Spock might not view them as Vulcans at all. One hundred years prior to the last movie (according to ENT) the majority of Vulcans were not adherence to the philosophy of Surak, only a small group. So it wouldn't be to difficult to imagine that the majority of Vulcans on colony worlds to also not be adherence to the philosophy of Surak, Spock might not consider these Vulcans to be "Vulcans."
When Spock spoke of being endangered, it might have been in this context.
Three thousand years is a long time to remain a high technology civilization. If the Vulcan had a series of both atomic and large non-atomic wars every few centuries over the course of millenniums, then they might have periodically lost the technology to achieve warp flight, perhaps even space flight. The Vulcans at the P'Jem monastery and on various assorted colonies could have been cut off from the homeworld for decades or even centuries on occasion.
Also later, under the teachings of Surak, the Vulcan could have turned inward culturally, the lack of the need to explore on Vulcans parts that we saw in Enterprise (from T'Pol) easily could be philosophical aspect of their "new" culture, rather than part of Vulcans natural psychological make up.
Also later, under the teachings of Surak, the Vulcan could have turned inward culturally, the lack of the need to explore on Vulcans parts that we saw in Enterprise (from T'Pol) easily could be philosophical aspect of their "new" culture, rather than part of Vulcans natural psychological make up.
You know, I just think this is at odds with logic. An asteroid hit or a major viral outbreak and your society is history.
This.
Perhaps they would have otherwise modified the line - after all the version used in the novelization was adjusted to accommodate off-world Vulcans.
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