Hoshi-Linquinstic Skills....

[Joel_Kirk]

Maybe someone who is familiar with languages can help me.

The episode 'Fight or Flight' with the Axanar had me thinking how Sato actually gets a hang of the the language...

Granted she knows Klingon, but at this time not many aliens are known to the people of Earth....(Of course, we have Vulcans and Denobulans)...

I don't know how much is based on realism and what is for fiction's sake...but I'm learning Chinese Mandarin, and I know a bit of Japanese...I can't speak either fluently, yet--especially in particular to Chinese Mandarin...but I do recall certain characters...

Of course, these are Earth bound langauges...

I'm assuming she learns languages by inputing 'stuff' in the computer, and quickly putting together sounds and...'characters' or symbols together...?

I just find it interesting that she was able to learn a language so quickly...

 

[Nerys Myk]

She's some sort of genius/savant. Might have augment ancestry.

 

[ChristopherPike]

It's her thing... plus I imagine her genius only has to see patterns in a read out from a prototype universal translator. So some of the work is done by the computer, just not perfectly. By Season 4's "Demons" she seems to have created a device that clips onto a jacket for delegates at that first Earth conference.

Interesting thing, there's a Next Generation episode called "The Icarus Factor". It's one of the many times (or so is my memory), that Riker looked like he was leaving for his own command. Picard mentions his new crew and makes a fuss about one in particular. I forget his name but he's an alien, I think. A character able to speak hundreds of languages and able to discern patterns in ones he doesn't know, precisely because they're similar to tongues he does.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

She's some sort of genius/savant. Might have augment ancestry.

A possibility.

It happened to Julian; it could have happened to Sato.

It's her thing... plus I imagine her genius only has to see patterns in a read out from a prototype universal translator. So some of the work is done by the computer, just not perfectly. By Season 4's "Demons" she seems to have created a device that clips onto a jacket for delegates at that first Earth conference.

Interesting thing, there's a Next Generation episode called "The Icarus Factor". It's one of the many times (or so is my memory), that Riker looked like he was leaving for his own command. Picard mentions his new crew and makes a fuss about one in particular. I forget his name but he's an alien, I think. A character able to speak hundreds of languages and able to discern patterns in ones he doesn't know, precisely because they're similar to tongues he does.

Interesting...!

 

[Skywalker]

She's some sort of genius/savant. Might have augment ancestry.

A possibility.

It happened to Julian; it could have happened to Sato.

Not exactly the same thing. Bashir wasn't descended from an Augment, his parents took him outside the Federation and paid someone to illegally modify his genes so that he would be smarter and more athletic. Hoshi having Augment ancestry would mean she had an ancestor who was an Augment from the Eugenics Wars like Khan, so her augmented traits would be completely inherited and effected by genetic mutation, and whichever ones asserted themselves most would probably be completely random.

Personally, that's one of my favorite ideas in ENT fanon and one I include in my own ideas every time this forum has one of those "reboot Enterprise" threads.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

^^

Sato's background is still open....so that's a possibility....

Section 31 might be interested in her as well, I think...if that idea of her being an augment was followed up on....

 

[Skywalker]

And who used to work for the Section? One Mr. Malcolm Reed, of course.

The 'ship is alive!

 

[Joel_Kirk]

And who used to work for the Section? One Mr. Malcolm Reed, of course.

The 'ship is alive!

Things that make you go 'Hmmm....' my friend...

Some interesting stuff...!

 

[Triskelion]

My guess is that future linguistics studies reveal patterns between behavioral associations common to many "people" who live in the 3D universe, (and they do have a lot in common, considering. The ability to process language at all is pretty amazing, considering how long it takes to develop, evolutionarily speaking). So in this future the computer can discern standard communications (like, "Hello please don't shoot"), assign them to their vocalizations, and then - here's the futuristic part - extrapolate semiotic patterns (meaning, form, function) based on future logarithms. An imprecise process that improves with increasing interaction. Who knows, the UT may actually read neurochemical associative patterns in certain areas of the brain, which is why it always takes longer to translate the speech of energy beings.

Of course, they don't address this, but the computer would actually have absolutely zero data for cultural references, so idioms would actually be translatable in one direction only - from Federation Standard to the L2. Hence, "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagara" was translated literally, and not in a meaningful way such as "Let's go establish relations by facing a common adversary".

Even on Earth, translators face this issue - do you translate the words, or the intended meaning - and if the latter, how poetic do you get with it?

For example, "Have you eaten" in Chinese actually relates more to a "How are you" than "Are you hungry, buy me dinner". If you were translating that how would you go about it? "How are you?" "It is my profound honor to meet you?" "Whazzup?" The UT in Star Trek would translate as literally as possible, say, "Have you eaten?", or "Walk with the Prophets" or "Ugly Bags of Mostly Water", instead of "Hi how's your hammer hangin'?"

 

[Timo]

Picard mentions his new crew and makes a fuss about one in particular. I forget his name but he's an alien, I think. A character able to speak hundreds of languages and able to discern patterns in ones he doesn't know, precisely because they're similar to tongues he does.

The guy's name was Flaherty... Either no more alien than O'Brien, or then an alien who fancied languages so much that he changed his name to an Earthling one, too!

(And that was 40+ languages, not hundreds.)

So in this future the computer can discern standard communications (like, "Hello please don't shoot")

I'd say THAT is the futuristic part. How can the computer tell whether the aliens' opening hail is "Hello please don't shoot", "We are the mighty starship Lollipop, tremble and state your business", or "Oops, wrong button - which one of these fires the disruptors again?"...?

I could totally buy a process where the computer eavesdrops on a sufficient length of discussion (be it a hundred people each speaking for a minute, or two people speaking for fifty minutes) and gradually deciphers the language, as in DS9 "Sanctuary". I could also buy a process where the computer serendipitously recognizes a sufficient number of almost-familiar words or combinations early on, and guesses that the new language is related to an already known one.

The mystery lies in deciphering the language from less than a minute of total data, when there is no known sister language...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Reanok]

Vox Sola is a real interesting look into Hoshi's skills at translating an alien language with T'Pol's help.There's a alien race that was insulted by Archer's diplomacy and they have an alien lifeform stowaway aboard that leaves their ship and comes through Enterprise's airlock.Malcolm & Mayweather have to help rescue Archer trip and several other crewmemebers and find out what the alien is trying to tell them.

 

[ChristopherPike]

The guy's name was Flaherty... Either no more alien than O'Brien, or then an alien who fancied languages so much that he changed his name to an Earthling one, too!

(And that was 40+ languages, not hundreds.)

Cheers. I can almost picture Patrick Stewart describing him now.

Oh yeah, Flaherty. Definitely some Orish in there for sure! It often felt like the writers based guest characters on really bad racial stereotypes during those first couple of seasons, so just as well they didn't actually show him!

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Vox Sola is a real interesting look into Hoshi's skills at translating an alien language with T'Pol's help.There's a alien race that was insulted by Archer's diplomacy and they have an alien lifeform stowaway aboard that leaves their ship and comes through Enterprise's airlock.Malcolm & Mayweather have to help rescue Archer trip and several other crewmemebers and find out what the alien is trying to tell them.

Sounds like an interesting situation; look forward to seeing the episode...

 

[Joel_Kirk]

*Double post*

Apologies...

 

[ChristopherPike]

Malcolm Reed more or less comes up with forcefields in that episode too.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Malcolm Reed more or less comes up with forcefields in that episode too.

That's interesting, because--in my research--I was wondering what enhancements for the ship is made throughout the series...

In addition to the forcefields, I wondered about the tractor beams....

 

[ChristopherPike]

You'll never see the NX-01 with a tractor beam. I find that's part of the charm. Even in Season 4, there's a moment during The Augment trilogy where they disable a Klingon Raptor by latching onto it with the grappler and using its tether pylons to disable their warp drive.

Check out Breaking the Ice in Season 1, where Archer has to swallow his pride and ask the Vulcans for help. They have tractor technology and use it to save the stricken shuttlepod.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

You'll never see the NX-01 with a tractor beam.

Lorian's Enterprise had a tractor beam in "E2." But they had an extra century and a great big Expanse in which to develop/acquire it.

Columbia appeared to have some E2-Enterprise modifications added by the time she left Spacedock. Perhaps a tractor beam might have turned up in future seasons. If we'd had them.

 

[ChristopherPike]

You'll never see the NX-01 with a tractor beam.

Lorian's Enterprise had a tractor beam in "E2." But they had an extra century and a great big Expanse in which to develop/acquire it.

Oh yeah. That had completely slipped my mind. He uses it to give his forebears a lift part way to the subspace corridor. The forward momentum putting them back on track to meet Degra.

 

[Skywalker]

You'll never see the NX-01 with a tractor beam.

Columbia appeared to have some E2-Enterprise modifications added by the time she left Spacedock. Perhaps a tractor beam might have turned up in future seasons. If we'd had them.

There was going to be a tractor beam installed on the next Tuesday, but the show was canceled before then.