Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Actually, they are, since the Alpha Centauri colony was founded BY humans.

 

[Timewalker]

Vulcans "do it" once every 7 years...

Not according to the Sarek/Amanda fanfic series I've been reading...

Actually, there has never been anything saying Vulcans cannot have sex whenever they want. It's just that every 7 years they HAVE to have sex (at least the males do).

 

[BillJ]

It's just that every 7 years they HAVE to have sex (at least the males do).

According to Enterprise, it applies to the females as well.

 

[Timewalker]

It's just that every 7 years they HAVE to have sex (at least the males do).

According to Enterprise, it applies to the females as well.

That doesn't agree with what was shown in "Amok Time."

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It's just that every 7 years they HAVE to have sex (at least the males do).

According to Enterprise, it applies to the females as well.

That doesn't agree with what was shown in "Amok Time."

How so? T'Pring had a lover.

 

[Sci]

Well, if you consider founding worlds, Alpha Centaurans are human ...

That's has never made sense to me.

Of the limited number of founder worlds of the Federation, two were Human? To me it would make more sense if each of the Federation's five founders were of a different species.

Why would that be a source of confusion? It's a fairly simple scenario: Humans settled Alpha Centauri, Centaurian Humans developed their own unique culture and political identity, they decided they no longer wished to be a political subdivision of United Earth and instead wanted to be independent of U.E., and then they decided they wanted to co-found the Federation as equal partners with Earth, Vulcan, and Andor.

Being Humans doesn't mean they're gonna see things eye-to-eye with United Earth -- it's entirely plausible that the Federation Councillor for Alpha Centauri might vote in common more with the Councillor for Andor than the Councillor for Earth.

For the record, here is a scene from the ENT novel Rise of the Federation: A Choice of Futures by the TrekBBS's own Christopher (aka, Christopher L. Bennett) that might shed some light on things:

Spoiler: RISE OF THE FEDERATION: A CHOICE OF FUTURES

February 7, 2163
Hansen's Planet

"You're crazy!" Valeria Williams cried. "Sir," she remembered to add as Travis Mayweather glared down at her. "You really want a different Council president every year? They'll never get anything done!"

Mayweather maneuvered around a low outcropping of basalt, working his way gingerly down the slope toward the savanna where the shuttlepod's sensors had registered the anthropoid biosigns. If he were still Val's age, he thought, he could've hopped over it like a mountain goat, as effortlessly as the taut-figured, auburn-haired tactical officer did herself. He was still in fine shape for a thirty-six-year-old, if he said so himself, but he'd still rather be a twenty-six-year-old. "Depends on how much power you give the president," he replied. "The Council's supposed to make most of the decisions, after all."

"But they only meet twice a year! Someone has to speak for them the rest of the time."

Heralded by a cascade of loose pebbles, Reynaldo Sangupta slide awkwardly past Mayweather, almost losing his footing until Val shot out an arm and caught his without even turning her head to look. "Why, thank you, my dear," the science officer said with a gallant flourish, lifting her hand towards his lips. She pulled it away, but gave him a brief smirk that was as much flirtatious as scornful. Sangupta was a good-looking young man, tall with rakish features and rich mahogany skin, and he was fully aware of his own appeal. "But what's wrong with letting the Prime Ministers' Conference make the decisions?" he went on. "The planets shouldn't have to give up too much control to the Feds."

"The ministers are too busy dealing with their own planets' problems. We need a leader for the whole Federation." Her hazel eyes darted back towards Mayweather. "And rotating between councillors isn't going to cut it, Commander."

"I see what you're saying, Val," Travis replied, testing a protruding rock with his foot and deciding it was firm enough to rest his weight on. "But I still think we need to spread the wealth more. We've got an Earth president, the capital's on Earth, the Council meets on Earth...."

"We're the only ones everybody trusts as a neutral broker," Williams pointed out.

"That's just it." He hopped down to the next firm protrusion, feeling the impact more in his knees than he would have a few years ago. "The Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites aren't going to get over their suspicions if they don't get to see each other in action as leaders, working for the good of everyone. I'm just afraid humans could end up dominating too much."

"That's gonna happen anyway, sir," Sangupta said as he gingerly lowered himself off the same rock Mayweather had jumped from--making the older officer feel a little better about his own condition. He paused to take a reading on his scanner, checking the position of the group of anthropoids they were tracking. Hansens's Planet had been discovered by the crew of the E.C.S. Bjarni Herjolfsson, who had staked a mining claim on its two dilithium-rich moons but had less interest in the planet (named in honor of the Herjolfsson captain's favorite prizefighter, Sven"Buttercup" Hansen), for its dilithium deposits were too deeply buried. However, Starfleet had taken an interest in their reports of a tool-using anthropoid species, and had sent Pioneer to investigate.

"What do you mean?" Williams challenged.

"Think about it," Sangupta went on. "With Mars in now, half the full members of the Federation are human words. The others, they have a few colonies and outposts here and there, but all still under their homeworld governments. But us, we're expansionists by nature. We spread out, we diversify." He pointed a little bit to the east of their current course, and they adjusted their descent accordingly. "And really, what's so bad about that? It's not like humans are all one bloc. Look at us. A Terran, a Centaurian, a space boomer," he said, gesturing to Williams, himself, and Mayweather in turn. "We're all human, but we're not all agreeing on this."

"That's a good point," Mayweather said. "I'm not sure other species would see it that way, though."

"All the more reason to give as much power as possible to the planets instead of the central government," Sangupta went on. "They'll be less likely to see humans as a single political unit."

"But look at what a mess the government already is," Williams countered as they reached the bottom of the slope. The savanna stretched out before them, a vast field of high, green-gold reeds flexing subtly in the breeze. It was punctuated at wide, fairly regular intervals by small copses of exotic pseudo-trees, multiple bamboo-like trunks spreading out from a common base to support wide, round photosynthetic caps like spongy chartreuse parasols. "Too much compromise, too many different institutions trying to represent every world's vision of government. The Council, the Commission, the Ministerial Conferences... I mean, it took them six months even to decide we should have a president at all!"

"Maybe we shouldn't," Sangupta said. "That's a relic of the days before modern communications. I say open-source the decision process. Give it to the people. For any problem, there are going to be dozens of experts out there with fresh and innovative ideas for how to fix it. Concentrate the decisions in the hands of a few politicians and those great ideas won't get heard."

"Just what I'd expect a colonial to say," Williams countered.

Sangupta bristled. "What's wrong with that?"

"Easy, Lieutenants," Mayweather cautioned. "We've got some apes to find. Anything, Rey?"

The science officer sulked for a moment before lifting his scanner. Like most Centaurians, Rey Sangupta took considerable pride in his colonial identity. Alpha Centauri III hadn't been an easy planet to tame; at first, UESPA's colonization board had written it off as too inhospitable, still suffering from a centuries-old impact winter and at too great a risk from future asteroid bombardment. That's why they'd chosen a more temperate world more than four times as distant for Earth's first extrasolar colony, Terra Nova--which had ironically fallen prey to an impact event itself after just five years. After Terra Nova had gone dark, a group whose leaders had included Zefram Cochrane himself had defied the United Earth government and founded an independent colony on Centauri III, and over the past seventy-five years had proven they were capable of taming the harsh world, thought not without significant losses. By now they had large, populous cities, an active terraforming industry, outposts established on the other borderline-habitable worlds around all three of Alpha Centauri's component stars, and enough of a space infrastructure to deflect any future asteroids--plus a strong, independent spirit and intense national pride. The same pride that had made them insist on joining the Federation as a full member, rather than a UE protectorate, also made them wary of surrendering too much of their sovereignty.

 

[ebusinesstutor]

I still contend that anything less than 10-15% can be classified as rare.

Ah, so "rare" would include:

Protestants - 8.15% of world population
Atheists 2.01% of world population

Roman Catholics just escape being rare with 18.85% of the world population.

Source:

 

[T'Girl]

^ Actually, they are, since the Alpha Centauri colony was founded BY humans.

Yes, there was a Human colony established on one of the worlds orbiting one of the stars in the Rigil Kentaurus system, but does that preclude there being a indigious technological native population prior to their arrival?

 

[JarodRussell]

I stumbled over this story.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/having-a-stroke-made-me-gay-155075

It's one of the phenomenons tied to neurological restructuring after brain damage. Some people become painters, musicians, or excel at mathematical understanding, and this dude claims it changed his sexual orientation. Which, if true, would basically mean that it's actually possible to change your orientation when you treat certain regions of the brain. Which, by the 24th century, would then probably be an option for people. On the other hand, it could also be possible that, even if it WAS medically possible, that "treatment" would still be a taboo.


The other implication is, but that's beyond this thread, that you could purposefully enhance your abilities by destroying areas of the brain, so that during the healing process the neurological pathways are efficiently restructured. In 300 years, who knows? Maybe that's for the other thread about disabilities in Star Trek.

 

[Shawnster]

How reputable is The Mirror?

Also, my understanding is that neurological and nerve damage is mostly permanent. While the brainma grw new nerves and routes around the damage, the damage itself cannot be fixed. Intentionally damaging ones brain in order to enhance abilitirs may not be feesable or a good idea.

 

[Maurice]

The man in question, Chris Birch was all over the British media a few years ago. There's an hour long documentary about him. Human behavior is seldom as simple as a single switch, so one man's experience is one man's experience.

 

[T'Girl]

I still contend that anything less than 10-15% can be classified as rare.

Does the apply when ordering beef steak in a restaurant?

 

[borgboy]

I stumbled over this story.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/having-a-stroke-made-me-gay-155075

It's one of the phenomenons tied to neurological restructuring after brain damage. Some people become painters, musicians, or excel at mathematical understanding, and this dude claims it changed his sexual orientation. Which, if true, would basically mean that it's actually possible to change your orientation when you treat certain regions of the brain. Which, by the 24th century, would then probably be an option for people. On the other hand, it could also be possible that, even if it WAS medically possible, that "treatment" would still be a taboo.


The other implication is, but that's beyond this thread, that you could purposefully enhance your abilities by destroying areas of the brain, so that during the healing process the neurological pathways are efficiently restructured. In 300 years, who knows? Maybe that's for the other thread about disabilities in Star Trek.

I think I have seen something of this story, and read about it as well, and IIRC, there was some debate over whether the man had just been closeted before he came out. I think he had some amnesia, so it was debatable if he himself even knew for sure his true orientation before the accident.
I remember there were comments from his family about how he was a very depressed and unhappy man before the accident, and he was much happier and well adjusted after he came out, which suggests that he was closeted before.
I've only read the first five and the last page of this thread, and I do intend to come back and read the rest when I have time. As a gay Trekkie this is clearly a topic of interest to me.
I think a lot of us when we watch Trek imagine what our lives would be like if we lived in Trek's future, and possibly what it would be like to live as a Klingon, or a Vulcan, Andorian, or any other race. Given Trek's lack of inclusion, it's difficult to imagine myself in some of those worlds, because I don't know if there would be a place for me. The novels have done a lot to expand that, and I love them for it - as well as being high entertainment and even inspiration for a better way to live, championing the virtues of Trek.
I'd like to try to make a list of what we know about homosexuality and how it is treated in different worlds. The books are a much more developed source for this. We know that Klingons have same sex marriage without any sign of prejudice from the ENT novels. We know the Andorians have a mandatory version of bisexuality (I LOVE the development of the Andorians in the novels. I already loved them for their exotic looks and complex personalities from the tv shows, but the novels added so much mystique and fascination to them with the exploration of their complicated genders).
We know that T'Prynn was a lesbian Vulcan, but she was pretty private about that. Selar in New Frontier had a hermaphrodite lover, which is non heteronormative, but I'd hesitate to label her as bisexual or any other orientation just based from that - she did have a husband who died previously. Selar has a gay brother, and their father disapproved of him having a partner, because he didn't experience pon farr - pretty much spelling out that Vulcan gay males don't go thru pon farr. I didn't care for that element, as it was pretty much the same thing as homophobia, and I found the logic flawed - surely there are more benefits to having a good marriage than just relief of pon farr, and possibly reproducing. It is in character though for Vulcan fathers of that generation to be rigid and judgemental though.
Ferengi seem to be pretty sexist and homophobic from what we saw, although I think under Rom things would be getting better.
The Trill seem very accepting of sexual diversity, and from Kira's reaction, the Bajorans had no taboo against homosexuality. I loved how accepting Kira was of Jadzia's romance with Lenora.
I do find it curious how some people are so short sighted and applying their own prejudices to alien cultures, such as so many people who are quick to think there wouldn't be gay Klingons. There's absolutely no reason that aliens would have the same prejudices that humans have. I get that some people see gays as weak, and the Klingons are so strong, so they couldn't accept gays. Which is, of course, a flawed argument based on stereotypes. Plenty of Earth societies had traditions of homosexuality among their warriors, and today there are gay cops, soldiers, etc.
Are there any explorations of homosexuality among aliens on Trek that I've missed? I'm not at all sure I believe Cardassians would be homophobic, I don't think their emphasis on family would mean they'd be homophobic. Gays could marry and be valued supporters of their extended families, mentoring their nieces and nephews, which would give those kids an advantage over kids who didn't have gay relatives to mentor them - the straight relatives would be too busy with their own kids to offer the same support. Just an example of how that could work.

 

[Maurice]

I think this comic illustrates how easily you can portray homosexuality in Star Trek and just make it part of character interaction without making it an "issue".

 

[T'Girl]

Sometimes it's good to make a public "issue" of ideas and concepts. It can be like opening the windows to your house, out with the stale old air and in with the fresh new air.

 

[Uhurock]

With a 150 odd species in the federation, Humans would be two-thirds of one percent.

See, thars not how life workd, though. Other factors come into play than just ratio/percentage of this group or that group per populace. Combined, Chinese and Indians are 33% of the Earth's population, yet they do not make up a third of your graduating class or a third of your friends. Currently this is due to geography and that mist Chinese are in China and Indians in India.

This still illustrates that other factors come into play. One ethnic or genetic group might be more disposed for one activity or another. If men and women were truly treated and viewed as equal in all things, there still may be some things that attract more men than women or vice versa.

Some planets may just not send that many being to Starfeet whereas other beings are better suited or more eager for life in space.

I agree with this. I think some planets [or parts of their cultures, for how many planets would indeed be monocultural?] would tend more toward pacifism and finance, for example; others toward science [like Vulcan] and others toward exploration with an eye toward conquest [Klingons].

As for Klingons not being gay because they're warriors/hypermasculine, I dare you to say that to an ancient Spartan or Athenian. Today's military has many gays who excel in the service; my best friend is one who had to remain tightly closeted for 23 years.

 

[Uhurock]

And I have to say I am tired, tired, tired of seeing white American types all over the books and movies of Trek. In JJ Abrams' favor, he had a goodly number of POC and women in the backgrounds, at least on the Bridge. I really would like to have seen a South Asian in the role of Khan, but I guess Mr. Magic Surprise Box Abrams thought that would be a dead giveaway as to who he really was. Ugh.

As to sex, I think most Earthers would feel much freer by then to explore the spectrum of sexuality. People would be homo- hetero- bi- and pansexual, depending on the number of sexes discovered. Some things are beyond my ken, but I like to try to imagine that there are things that are.

 

[Fashion Victim]

I doubt the Cardassian Union would tolerate homosexuals, their society seems to be obsessed with preserving nuclear families and they don't have much time for orphans, so it seems there would be no place for homosexuals in their society. Likewise the Romulan Empire seems to perform a sort of eugenics program, with a Romulan officer saying they dispose of any children with any physical problems (like blindness) from birth, that doesn't seem like the kind of place that would tolerate homosexuals.

Ancient Sparta is notorious for killing infants particularily male infants who had any sort of physical handicap, yet homosexuality was common place. This was because boy's were taken from their faimilies at the age of 7, to begin their training as soilders which for the first 9 years consisted mostly of just surviving the wilderness alone with a small band of boys your same age with little more then the clothes on your back. By the time they reached adulthood and they were ready to marry, the girls they were usualy arranged to marry, would shave their heads and where a man's toga on their wedding night, so they would resemble young men, because the Spartan soilders had endured of childhood of only being comforted by man and it was easier for them to get intimate with their new wives this way, but I digress.

The point I was trying to make is that someitmes contradictory ideas co-exist in real culures it'd be impossible then to specutulate on alien culures. In my own mental cannon I always saw the Romulans as taking the Greko-Roman approach, a Romulan of high-standing was expected to marry in order to perpatuate his/her line, but if they got along like cats and dogs, behind closed doors and wanted to take a same sex lover, it would be willfuly ignored by their peers. :P

 

[borgboy]

I think it's a fallacy to assume that alien cultures would have the same prejudices against homosexuality that Earth does. We've already seen other ways their cultures are surprisingly different, such as women being the leaders in the sciences on Cardassia.

 

[T'Girl]

Along the same line, what acceptance we've achieved to date in our present day cultures wouldn't automatically be present in future alien societies (or even all Human societies/worlds).

They could be equal to our own acceptance of gays, futher advanced or centuries behind us while at the same time having a technological society that include interstellar travel (warp drive) and all the other "goodies" shown on the show.

Not all aspects of a society would necessarily move at the same rate.