Homefront/Paradise Lost Issue

[Bry_Sinclair]

I've been thinking about this two-parter a lot in the last couple of weeks and something about it has never really made sense to me: where is the planetary government?

Earth is home to the central Federation government, which oversees all matters relating to the entirety of the UFP, but I find it highly doubtful that that single body would be able to deal with all the matters on the 150+ member worlds--they have much bigger things to focus on--so surely every planet would have their own government and leader to see to matters specifically relevant to their globe (sort of like how here in the UK all local authorities have their own council and there are devolved parliaments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, to address and deal with specific issues relating to their areas whilst the UK government handles all the bigger topics).

So why is it with an attack on Earth (yes, it will threaten the UFP Council) that the Earth leader isn't at the forefront of the matter, or at least involved in the emergency planning and response? I'd assume that the UFP would have contingencies in place to deal with an attack on Earth, the most logical option being that the President and Council would be evacuated to another member world (eg Vulcan) to continue running the Federation with minimal disruption whilst the Earth officials dealt with what was happening until it was resolved.

I get that the UFP was at the centre of things so that the stakes of the attempted coup were raised for the drama of it all, but it still annoys me that we never even had mention of what the Earth Prime Minister/Chancellor/Monarch was doing to support President Jaresh-Inyo.

Anyone else feel this was a missed opportunity?

 

[Timo]

Sure it's a missed opportunity, and the writers did contemplate making references originally, but I don't think it's particularly unexpected. This isn't an Earth-specific crisis, any more than spies with briefcase nukes in Washington would be a matter for the city's or the District's government or authorities to handle. And when a State of Emergency is declared, it's appropriate to see the big boss declare it, rather than the equivalent of the local Governor, because it's the resources of the big bos that are geetting deployed as the consequence.

Also, in plot terms, Leyton would have been sure to make all the right moves to exclude Earth's authorities and to substitute his own Starfleet loyalists. Apparently he succeeded there...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

They were going to have United Earth officials in this episode, but it got cut for time. That's the only reason.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

So why is it with an attack on Earth (yes, it will threaten the UFP Council) that the Earth leader isn't at the forefront of the matter, or at least involved in the emergency planning and response?

Perhaps because that office was radically weaker than its counterpart. There are a number of nations who see the security in the capital city, district or state to be too important too allow to be left to locals. Washington, DC not only lacks the competencies of a state, it is indeed less sovereign than most American cities. Prefectural authority in France is already nationalized, but it is tightly controlled in Paris. And historically, the territorial government of Prussia was almost identical to the government of the German Empire. In those cases, any emergency response by local authorities would look like a response by national authorities.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I thought it was a consideration of the writers thinking the audience would get confused if it wasn't kept simple.

Not many TV series writing staffs write with a high estimation of their audience's intelligence.

 

[My Name Was Taken Twice]

but it got cut for time. That's the only reason.

That's a shame the weak UFP president ruins an otherwise great two-parter. Seriously you could flush that guys head in the toilet and he's give you control of Earth!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

FWIW, the novelverse goes into a bit more detail on this point...I think it's one of the TNG "Slings & Arrows" novels which states that United Earth officials were criticized for their inaction in the "Leyton affair".

 

[BillJ]

FWIW, the novelverse goes into a bit more detail on this point...I think it's one of the TNG "Slings & Arrows" novels which states that United Earth officials were criticized for their inaction in the "Leyton affair".

Does Earth even have its own state military? We've never seen any indication that is the case.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

FWIW, the novelverse goes into a bit more detail on this point...I think it's one of the TNG "Slings & Arrows" novels which states that United Earth officials were criticized for their inaction in the "Leyton affair".

Now a side plot about the Earth Government being in cahoots with Leyton, to reclaim "Earth for Earthlings", might've been a nice addition--though would've gone against the GR view of 24th century humanity.

Does Earth even have its own state military? We've never seen any indication that is the case.

I'd assume some sort of law enforcement on the planet to maintain peace and order. During the Locutus-led Borg invasion Sol did have its own defences which were never explicitly stated as being Starfleet or some sort of Earth Defence Division.

 

[Mattadd]

I just assumed Earth was like England, they don't have their own government, but the other Federation planets do, just like the other constituent countries of the UK. Starfleet seems to be dominated by humans, just like the UK is dominated by the English. My reading was that there are just way more humans than everyone else, and the Federation government is on Earth, so Earth doesn't need its own government.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Earth most definitely has its own government. It's called United Earth. It's a normal Federation member world, just like any other.

Just because the Federation capital buildings are located on Earth, means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Earth has no special status.

 

[Mattadd]

Earth most definitely has its own government. It's called United Earth. It's a normal Federation member world, just like any other.

Just because the Federation capital buildings are located on Earth, means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Earth has no special status.

I'm not saying it has special status, just that its interests are are adequately represented in the Federation government by virtue of its giant population, and therefore they don't feel a need to have their own government. I can't recall any episodes mentioning a United Earth after the Federation was formed.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Earth will always need its own government, apart from the Federation. Earth, like any member world, will always have its own needs and interests that are separate from those of the Federation. Just like US states, Canadian provinces, etc. will have their own interests that are distinct from those of the national government. And cities within those states/provinces will have THEIR own needs as well.

Which is why Washington, D.C. (for example) deserves to be a state. It's an undemocratic disaster that it's existed for so long without being a state. Because as it stands, DC residents have no representation of any kind - they can vote for President, but that's it. They have no representation in Congress, and what little local government exists in DC is powerless (DC's mayor and local council are appointed by Congress, and can be overridden BY Congress at any time - so in the end, they mean nothing).

So in a very real sense, people who live in DC have absolutely no say in how the government is run. You wouldn't want Earth to be like that in the Federation, would you? Because that's basically what you're describing.

I mean, Canada does just fine with having their national government in Ottawa, doesn't it? Ottawa is just a normal Canadian city, like any other. It just happens to have the apparatus of Canadian national government located within it. But this doesn't mean Ottawa is a special city, or that it doesn't have a local government. This is how Earth functions within the Federation, and it SHOULD be how Washington, DC works as well.

 

[Mattadd]

You're ignoring the UK/England direct comparison that I made. By your logic England should have its own government. But it doesn't. It doesn't need one, its interests are represented in the UK Parliament. Meanwhile Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all have their own Parliaments in addition to being represented in the UK Parliament.

In my thinking Earth isn't Washington D.C. or Ottawa, it's England.

 

[UnknownSample]

Wasn't United Earth just a phrase we heard once or twice in the early TOS episodes? And wasn't it something they ditched by coming up with the Federation?

The UFP president could easily have been the most important decision maker. This is not some ordinary local issue. Everyone is going to be involved, with the top authority there is at the top, because it's an attack on the heart of the Federation. If this United Earth head exists, s/he is his lieutenant, carrying out orders when given any. That is mundane stuff happening off camera. We don't need a token appearance from him onscreen to let us know he's on the job.

The attack is coming from outside Earth as well as inside. It involves Starfleet, which is UFP.

If anyone fires a missile at Washington DC, it won't be a matter for the local police.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

You're ignoring the UK/England direct comparison that I made. By your logic England should have its own government. But it doesn't. It doesn't need one, its interests are represented in the UK Parliament. Meanwhile Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all have their own Parliaments in addition to being represented in the UK Parliament.

In my thinking Earth isn't Washington D.C. or Ottawa, it's England.

England would be perfectly justified to have their own parliament to govern English matters, with the UK Government being in overall charge. If every other country in the UK has to waste money on more politicians and bureaucracy then so should those in England

And now back to the thread!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Wasn't United Earth just a phrase we heard once or twice in the early TOS episodes? And wasn't it something they ditched by coming up with the Federation?

No, and no.

United Earth is the name of Earth's government. It is a member of the Federation, it wasn't replaced by it.

We saw the United Earth embassy on Vulcan in the ENT Forge/Awakening/Kir'Shara arc.

 

[Mattadd]

No, and no.

United Earth is the name of Earth's government. It is a member of the Federation, it wasn't replaced by it.

We saw the United Earth embassy on Vulcan in the ENT Forge/Awakening/Kir'Shara arc.

Enterprise was before the Federation was founded. There are no references to United Earth in TNG/DS9/VOY (Don't know about TOS because I haven't seen the whole series). So it seems likely that United Earth was dissolved once the Federation was founded.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

So it seems likely that United Earth was dissolved once the Federation was founded.

Likely? No. A theory? Maybe. But it's one that I'd prefer not be true.

Remember what I just said about Washington, DC. As it stands, they have no representation in the government. Literally all they can do is vote for President. What passes for a mayor and local council in DC is a powerless figurehead. Residents of DC exist purely at the whims of Congress, and what rights they have can be taken away at any time. You're not suggesting that this is what you want for Earth vs. the Federation, are you?

In a system such as you described, how do you think Earth citizens are represented? What happens when Earth has local needs that don't have anything to do with the Federation? How is that handled? Hell, you keep bringing up England - well, then, how are Englishpeople supposed to have their needs attended to in the UK government?

I mean, I hate to toot my own horn here, but I honestly can't see how any other system could possibly be efficient and workable - just have the United Earth government continue to exist, but as a member of the Federation. Why should it be any other way? How would that be any better?

Edit: There are references to "Earth ships" and "Earth bases" in TOS. Granted, most of those were written before the writers had even conceived of the Federation as such, but they're there, and can't be ignored. So it would seem that Earth still exists as an entity after all.

 

[MacLeod]

Enterprise was before the Federation was founded. There are no references to United Earth in TNG/DS9/VOY (Don't know about TOS because I haven't seen the whole series). So it seems likely that United Earth was dissolved once the Federation was founded.

Lack of evidence does not mean that occured. In ENT our heroes worked for Easrth Starfleet and by extension the UNited Earth Government. In TNG/DSN/VOY and TOS (though TOS referrenes the UESPA in at one episode I think) work for the Federation Starfleet and by extension the Federation Council. So there would likely be fewer references to the United Earth Government because it wasn't part of their chain of command.