That would seem to repeat the very crime Mackenzie was accused of.
Hey, I never noticed that before....
- Thread starter Warped9
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Thats interesting. It is indeed a bit comparible. Obviously there was no evidence that Spock or anyone intended to kill anyone. However the trial seems about the same validation (and lack of laywers) except that Captain Mackenzie "apparently" had the agreement of his non-traitorous senior officers in the hanging and hanging wasn't unusual in those days. And the Enterprise was 3 days from Star Base whatever and Mackenzie was 15 days from home (so both Kirk and MacKenzie could have waited for the authorities). Both could have shoved the "mutineers" in a shuttle/lifeboat if they felt the ship was endangered.
Thinking again I wonder why Lester actually murdered her team. She could have just told Kirk the team was dead to get him to come.
I was watching some show on serial killers the other night and the serial killer guy walked around the town with blood lierally on his hands and clothes, bringing himself to the attention of a former classmate with his crazy talk. He ate part of his victims bodies and their blood but he was found to be :"sane" because he wore gloves on one occasion to "hide" his fingerprints. So I doubt according to American law Janice Lester would be considered "insane".
The question is about Federation law, where places like Elba II exist, that don't exist in the US, except in relatively nightmarish versions.
Yes. But I suspect that many fathers would feel a strong temptation in those circumstances.
No. I don't recall anything in Hornblower that would imply that, but if there was it was wrong. There was a well-established legal code that specified which offenses a captain could punish on his own authority, which offenses had to be tried by court martial, and the sentences that could be imposed. Mutiny was a court martial offense.
Because a court martial at the time required a board of at least five captains, offenders were often transported back to Britain from overseas stations for trial. That's what HM frigate Pandora was doing with some of the Bounty mutineers when she was wrecked in 1791.
Captains who imposed punishments outside the law would themselves be committing an offense. In one case in 1807 the captain of HM sloop Recruit marooned a sailor on a Caribbean island as punishment for theft. The sailor was picked up by a merchant ship and when the story came out the captain was court martialed and dismissed from the service.
What radio changed the most was operational, so admirals in England could get involved (some would say interfere) in what fleets and ships were doing all over the world, where commanders on the spot had before had much more authority and leeway to make important decisions on their own stations.
It would actually be worse, since the captain of Somers did have legal jurisdiction for the crew, whereas the secretary of war would have no jurisdiction over a naval officer.
Thanks for that. But there was a Forester novel where young Hornblower is serving under a captain who goes insane with paranoid delusions. And the situation was that the captain had to be obeyed regardless, including whatever punishments he would order. And what was lawful was not for the other officers to decide while they were at sea. They figured they would have to relieve him if it became intolerable, probably blunting their own careers with the whiff of mutiny.
This doesn't make you or the book wrong, but it implies that if a Royal Navy captain went crazy, holding him accountable to the law would have to wait for their return to England.
She probably didn't get the Consciousness Transfer device to work on her own, it was through the work of her and said team that got the technology operational. With the team dead, only herself and Dr. Coleman knew the device actually worked, and she knew Coleman wouldn't speak a word of it.
Lieutenant Hornblower - Captain James Sawyer of HMS Renown... Actually a very good book and made a good Episode of A&E's Hornblower. Sawyer was played by repeat Trek guest star David Warner.
I'm sorry, I misunderstood, I thought the issue was captains handing down punishments, not removing the captain. That was in Lieutenant Hornblower. IIRC yes, what the captain did was within his authority and even though he was clearly not competent the officers were at a loss as to how to deal with the situation.
I've always believed (and still do) that the Gideonites re-created the Enterprise via a holodeck.
I mean, there can't possibly be room enough on Gideon to actually build the ship itself...
That's interesting, I'm going to have to check to see if anything contradicts that next time I watch the episode, because it'd make a lot more sense than them actually creating an entire fake ship. (Though if it wasn't for the shot of people outside the window you could say they just built it on stilts).
Nah, just a Bridge, some corridors and a few rooms will do the trick, plus some classic misdirection from Kirk's captors. I know he states in his log that he "searched every area of the ship" but that must have been with the (fake) sensors because there simply isn't enough time for him to have done it on foot:
9 minutes of Kirk’s life disappeared, in which he was knocked out, his blood extracted and beamed back into the replica Enterprise. He then wandered to the Bridge, wandered the corridors and at some point recorded a log entry in which he claims to have searched the entire ship. We then cut to Mr Spock who states that Kirk beamed down “moments ago”. That’s less than an hour and probably not much more than the 9 missing minutes – definitely not enough time for Kirk to explore an entire replica ship in person.
As regards the accuracy of the replica, let’s not forget that Kirk may not be in his right mind, at least for the first hour or so on board the replica (having been subjected to medical treatments). Spock on the other hand (not having his faculties muddled) isn’t fooled for a second.
As the drugs wear off, Kirk begins to hear the heartbeats of the Gideonites (the drugs probably got burned out of his system more quickly because he recently engaged in some vigorous physical activity too). After that the plot takes over and he’s less interested in the duplicate Enterprise and more interested in solving the mystery.
Honestly, my biggest gripe with the replica Enterprise is how unnecessary it is to the Gideonite’s plan – just extract all his blood and be done!
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it occurred to me that it would play better if it could be considered that the Gideonites had made some sort of breakthrough with pattern replication and holographic data storage (possibly even contributing the advance to the Federation later on down the line) -- if they manage to take a detailed scan of the approaching Enterprise in order to facilitate making a really good holographic or replicated copy, then the ruse fits better - easily fitting capabilities we see later on the line
if they were building UP at this point they could even have set aside some amount of space for it - constructing a huge dome and building 23 stories with starship interiors on top of an existing structure. and then, since the cylindrical and saucer shaped hulls would leave lots of open space around, you'd have people milling about up against the windows as seen
this also gives the hilarious implication that after the ruse was complete they might've just have opened up the entry airlocks and let people flow into the ship, live in the quarters, etc. ITS FREE REAL ESTATE.jpeg etc etc
if they were building UP at this point they could even have set aside some amount of space for it - constructing a huge dome and building 23 stories with starship interiors on top of an existing structure. and then, since the cylindrical and saucer shaped hulls would leave lots of open space around, you'd have people milling about up against the windows as seen
this also gives the hilarious implication that after the ruse was complete they might've just have opened up the entry airlocks and let people flow into the ship, live in the quarters, etc. ITS FREE REAL ESTATE.jpeg etc etc
The problem with that is there's no way for the Gideonites to know in advance what parts of the ship Kirk would travel to.
So either they built a replica of the entire ship (almost certainly impossible) or it was likely a holographic simulation of some kind.
They were on reality TV to the masses to inspire a large part of the young population to embrace death like in a romance novel. Given that the Gideonites planned on keeping Kirk, I suspect he will be very busy "infecting" many more young females (on live TV)...Honestly, my biggest gripe with the replica Enterprise is how unnecessary it is to the Gideonite’s plan – just extract all his blood and be done!
sort of like the 'acid stain on the lab table' from both McCoy's and mirror McCoy's sickbay, that kind of level of detail too, since McCoy was able to quickly discern that he was in an exact mirror of his normal work area
Kirk would go to areas he normally went to, but there would be tons of opportunities for the copy to be too flawed unless they had an accurate scan.
Who replaced the Ficus in the starboard lounge? Where's the bent hull section in section 5 from when Apollo squeezed the ship. How come my copy of Paradise Lost next to my bed doesnt have the page folded that i read last night? Where are the notches i scratched into the plating next to my bed? how come the one for Shahna isnt there anymore?
or even if he was possibly concussed and not sure of where his book left off, how come the pages in my book collection are all blank? they would need the entire text of all his books to make his quarters convincing
Kirk would go to areas he normally went to, but there would be tons of opportunities for the copy to be too flawed unless they had an accurate scan.
Who replaced the Ficus in the starboard lounge? Where's the bent hull section in section 5 from when Apollo squeezed the ship. How come my copy of Paradise Lost next to my bed doesnt have the page folded that i read last night? Where are the notches i scratched into the plating next to my bed? how come the one for Shahna isnt there anymore?
or even if he was possibly concussed and not sure of where his book left off, how come the pages in my book collection are all blank? they would need the entire text of all his books to make his quarters convincing
They wouldn't need to - the key areas are readily available (much like the soundstage!) and most other rooms on the Enterprise are pretty modular, so an easy redress
Anyway, as soon as Kirk started to wander off somewhere they hadn't prepared for, Odona would saunter by to distract the good captain. It's certainly true that once he met her he seemed less inclined to explore the ship.
Specifically I suggested he was drugged rather than concussed but either way I believe he wasn't his usual sharp self. Plus, as I mentioned earlier he never really has a chance to do any detailed exploration work before he met Odona, after which his attention was...elsewhere.
Given how the Gideonites got themselves into this mess to begin with, I find that explanation unpleasantly believable!They were on reality TV to the masses to inspire a large part of the young population to embrace death like in a romance novel. Given that the Gideonites planned on keeping Kirk, I suspect he will be very busy "infecting" many more young females (on live TV)...
Maybe the Gideonites got some help from Peter Graves and Greg Morris next door...
There's no reason to think that the Gideons had holodeck technology. If they'd had it, then overcrowding likely wouldn't have been a problem for them, as they could each have had their own holodeck, giving each of them plenty of room.
^ The holodeck doesn't create space where there is none.
This is normally not a problem on a starship, as there is already plenty of space for the crew. But on Gideon, where nobody has any space, the holodeck couldn't create any. People would be stuffed into the holodeck area just like any other building.
This is normally not a problem on a starship, as there is already plenty of space for the crew. But on Gideon, where nobody has any space, the holodeck couldn't create any. People would be stuffed into the holodeck area just like any other building.
