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HEROES 3x05 "Angels and Monsters" Discuss and Grade

Grade the Episode


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Actually, nobody's mentioned that Matt was not in this episode at all.

It appears that, at least according to next week's trailer, Mr. Petrelli probably gets healed next week by Monroe's blood, because he was walking around and talking on his own.
 
Above Average - this season is a real hoot so far. Sure, some things are messy/sloppy, ok, a LOT of things, but this is a big epic serialized saga with a dozen great characters all pulling the story in different directions like wild horses, so of course it's going to be harder to keep the writing consistent/comprehensible/sane. I'll take this over some unambitious episodic procedural that someone is trying to pass off as "sci fi" anyday! :bolian:

Assume Hiro freezes time and fakes Ando's death to get into Pinehurst (how he knew about Pinehurst or why he decided to join is anyone's guess).

He froze time and ran over to a nearby magic shop to get a fake sword and some packets of blood, and then swung by a hospital for some kind of drug to knock Ando out. After stabbing Ando with the fake sword, he froze time again, hid the fake sword (or returned it politely) and replaced it with the real sword, which from Daphne and Knox's perspective, he seemed to be drawing out of Ando's torso. And it's about time Hiro started using his time-freezing in a truly creative way!

Maybe he figures Pinehurst is a likely place to look for the formula which Daphne delivered to them. The bigger question is why the Pinehurst people believe for one instant that Hiro would join them or really stab Ando - don't they do any research on people before approaching them? They know Matt will be a hard sell, but they have no faith in Hiro's innate goodness? There should be a lot you can learn about any person's character just by doing normal private-investigator stuff.

I am thinking we haven't seen the last of the guy with the vortex powers.

I hope not, like a lot of people here, I liked the guy. I'd like to see where exactly he goes in that vortex - could be really interesting/freaky.

I was trying to decide during the vortex-guy-kill-Sylar scene if Sylar could actually hear them. The filming did make that ambiguous, but in the car afterwards, it was clear Sylar knew what HRG had intended to do.

Hard to know, but the scene was filmed so you could interpret Sylar's expression that he was hearing every word and was curious to see how far Noah would go with his plan. Why would he feel endangered, considering that Noah and Claire were much closer to the vortex than he was? There was no indication vortex-guy could "throw" a vortex, so Sylar would have plenty of time to, say, use the TK to levitate quickly away.

If he wanted to be mean, he could have turned the carousel into molten metal and killed Noah & vortex guy and trapped Claire. (If he still has TK, he's still got all his other powers, since the TK wasn't original any more than the others were.)

I'm rather disappointed with the "it's the power's fault that I'm evil!" theme we're getting this season, namely with Sylar, Peter, and Mohinder. It's just flat out lame.

Yeah that does seem to overwhelm the characters. They need to be given free will or they become boring. It's okay if the power gives them the urge or just the ability to be evil, as long as they are acting in character to resist or succumb to it.

Sylar apparently trying to play nice expands his character's possibilities but Mo and Peter just being absorbed into eeevil makes them little more than pawns of the plotline. Maybe neither has had time to really wake up to what's happening to them (Peter certainly hasn't) and they will return more to being their own selves instead of Generic Evil Guy,

I don't know where that's going to take the characters, though. Mo might be guilt-ridden and obsessed with compensating for his crimes by going back to his original idea of removing powers - he could become fanatical about the idea that all the powers are inherently evil. Mo can't do anything halfway, that's for sure. With Peter, it might evolve into a self-justification thing, where he keeps thinking he's a big enough hero to control the "hunger" and if he could only get it right, everything would be okay...his problem is sheer stubbornness.

If Sylar's career with The Company fails, he can always join the Nerd Herd at the local Buy More... where he will proceed to cut open Chuck's head and take the Intersect. Then hook up with Sarah.

Hah, no sane woman would throw over adorable Chuck for creepy Sylar. :p

Angela's confession that Nathan is a synthetic hero makes me even more suspicious that baby Gabriel was the first attempt at an ultra-hero who can absorb all powers, and since he got screwed up, they kicked him to the curb and tried again with the next kid down the line...wow, COLD! :rommie:

If Gabe had come out ok, would Peter even have been born?

Lastly, glad to have Adam back, he really adds a lot to the Hiro/Ando circus.

Oh right, ratings. Up a tad from last week.

Heroes averaged 8.63 million viewers (#3) and a 4.2/10 among adults 18-49 (#2)
As expected, Heroes is heavily timeshifted - adding the timeshifted viewing increases the ratings by 37% and kicks it into the 12M range - which doesn't help for ad dollars but does help for Nissan Versa product placements. What type of car were Noah and Sylar driving, anyway?
 
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He froze time and ran over to a nearby magic shop to get a fake sword and some packets of blood, and then swung by a hospital for some kind of drug to knock Ando out. After stabbing Ando with the fake sword, he froze time again, hid the fake sword (or returned it politely) and replaced it with the real sword, which from Daphne and Knox's perspective, he seemed to be drawing out of Ando's torso. And it's about time Hiro started using his time-freezing in a truly creative way!

You're forgetting Daphne can't be frozen by Hiro's time stop. Of course that would mean Daphne would have to be in on it...
 
He froze time and ran over to a nearby magic shop to get a fake sword and some packets of blood, and then swung by a hospital for some kind of drug to knock Ando out. After stabbing Ando with the fake sword, he froze time again, hid the fake sword (or returned it politely) and replaced it with the real sword, which from Daphne and Knox's perspective, he seemed to be drawing out of Ando's torso. And it's about time Hiro started using his time-freezing in a truly creative way!

You're forgetting Daphne can't be frozen by Hiro's time stop.

I don't get why not - if he freezes time, then it doesn't matter if she's running fast because she's been stopped along with everything else.

Anyway he could do what I described via time travel just as easily. Bopping back and forth between the past and present is another way of "stopping time." I've wondered if the two powers might actually be the same overarching power, just employed differently.
 
He froze time and ran over to a nearby magic shop to get a fake sword and some packets of blood, and then swung by a hospital for some kind of drug to knock Ando out. After stabbing Ando with the fake sword, he froze time again, hid the fake sword (or returned it politely) and replaced it with the real sword, which from Daphne and Knox's perspective, he seemed to be drawing out of Ando's torso. And it's about time Hiro started using his time-freezing in a truly creative way!

You're forgetting Daphne can't be frozen by Hiro's time stop. Of course that would mean Daphne would have to be in on it...

I thought he does freeze her in the 3rd season debut episode and then touches her to bring her out of being a frozen.
 
He froze time and ran over to a nearby magic shop to get a fake sword and some packets of blood, and then swung by a hospital for some kind of drug to knock Ando out. After stabbing Ando with the fake sword, he froze time again, hid the fake sword (or returned it politely) and replaced it with the real sword, which from Daphne and Knox's perspective, he seemed to be drawing out of Ando's torso. And it's about time Hiro started using his time-freezing in a truly creative way!

You're forgetting Daphne can't be frozen by Hiro's time stop. Of course that would mean Daphne would have to be in on it...

I thought he does freeze her in the 3rd season debut episode and then touches her to bring her out of being a frozen.

Hmm, yeah, that's the same explanation as how Sylar got unfrozen when Hiro touched him with the sword in S1.
 
I thought he does freeze her in the 3rd season debut episode and then touches her to bring her out of being a frozen.

Daphne was pretending since she was able to move her eyes without any problems. Looks like she just wanted to see who was messing with her.

I think the best way to explain it is that whenever Hiro freezes time he probably is just slowing down time until it looks like everything is frozen. Daphne's super speed becomes normal speed when that happens. The writers seem to be going in that direction anyway,
 
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You're forgetting Daphne can't be frozen by Hiro's time stop. Of course that would mean Daphne would have to be in on it...

I thought he does freeze her in the 3rd season debut episode and then touches her to bring her out of being a frozen.

Daphne was pretending since she was able to move her eyes without any problems. Looks like she just wanted to see who was messing with her.

Ah I probably wasn't paying attention because I thought the 3rd season opening episode was kinda poor.
 
I thought he does freeze her in the 3rd season debut episode and then touches her to bring her out of being a frozen.

Daphne was pretending since she was able to move her eyes without any problems. Looks like she just wanted to see who was messing with her.

Ah I probably wasn't paying attention because I thought the 3rd season opening episode was kinda poor.

And it's another example of the writers re-writing stuff and hoping we won't notice. ;) It's much cooler if Hiro can stop time cold. For him to merely slow it down is dumb.

The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if they ascribe Hiro's ability to fake Ando's death to his time-stopping ability rather than time-travel.
 
I thin your explanations of how Ando is not killed are to complicated for the writers of this show.
I think Hiro simply improvised without thinking it through (again).
He really stabs Ando, but in a non-vital spot with the intention to teleport him to a hospital as soon as the others leave the room.
 
And it's another example of the writers re-writing stuff and hoping we won't notice. ;) It's much cooler if Hiro can stop time cold. For him to merely slow it down is dumb.

The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if they ascribe Hiro's ability to fake Ando's death to his time-stopping ability rather than time-travel.

Just trying to make sense of Hiro could affect Daphne's powers. :lol:

If the writers really want to do something cool they should have Daphne know about and agree to be part of Hiro's plan to fake Ando's death. They have gone to great lengths to show that she not a killer. I want Ando to randomly show up in a later episode to kick ass followed immediately by a flashback of what really happened.
 
You're making the assumption that Hiro doesn't stop time (for the most part; light still seems to be moving, enough for him to see, but that's about it.. he's stopped explosions as they were occuring, which do so pretty damn fast). I don't believe that's ever stated or directly implied.

All we know is part of Daphne's power is that she can counter the time stoppage, presumably because she can move so quickly... but not necessarily. If that were the case, why would she be perfectly synched with Hiro while he's doing it? She was also frozen the first time we saw her on screen (Hiro was following her little wake), but she snapped out of it when she saw Hiro appear. You'll also note that while she's doing this she loses all of her speed abilities. She's not moving slightly faster, not slightly slower. She's moving at the exact same speed Hiro is. There's also no wake while she's moving once "unfrozen."

So. Yeah.
 
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You're making the assumption that Hiro doesn't stop time. I don't believe that's ever stated.

All we know is part of Daphne's power is that she can counter the time stoppage, presumably because she can move so quickly but not necessarily. If that were the case, why would she be perfectly synched with Hiro while he's doing it? She was also frozen the first time we saw her on screen (Hiro was following her little wake), but she snapped out of it when she saw Hiro appear. You'll also note that while she's doing this she loses all of her speed abilities. She's not moving slightly faster, not slightly slower. She's moving at the exact same speed Hiro is. There's also no wake while she's moving once "unfrozen."

Hiro's powers make no sense. It might as well be magic.

I think that scene with Daphne leaving behind the wake was just supposed to be a "cool" reveal and nothing more. They wanted to show you Daphne was special. You'll notice that they never do anything like that again in the next episodes whenever Daphne uses her powers around Hiro. But it's obvious Daphne is immune somewhat whenever he freezes time. If Hiro really could freeze time completely then Daphne would never be a problem in the first place since he could tie her up while she is statue-like. The best way to explain this is that that Hiro slows time. That's what I think anway.
 
Once again, you're assuming Daphne's only power is moving fast. She may have a peripherial power that simply lets her break the stoppage of time. Sort of like how Matt can not only read minds, but put suggestions into them, too. Something he didn't know he could do at first.

This could simply be an evolution of Daphne's power. That, in my opinion, is the simplest explanation.
 
^Whatever the situation, Daphne is clearly not as affected or perhaps not affected at all by Hiro's power to slow down time.

She did, however, have the same reaction Hiro did when Knox told him to kill Ando so she might be in on it.
 
Once again, you're assuming Daphne's only power is moving fast. She may have a peripherial power that simply lets her break the stoppage of time. Sort of like how Matt can not only read minds, but put suggestions into them, too. Something he didn't know he could do at first.

Well that's definately possible. It's been shown that some people can have mutiple powers. Maybe Daphne also could manipulate time like Hiro but she just happens to uses her powers differently?

There's a DC comics supervillain named Zoom whose powers let him manipulate time around him which makes him have powers very similar to a speedster when he really doesn't. Zoom is an enemy of the Flash.
 
I'm wondering if this could mean that the real reason the Company had Adam locked up was to prevent Arthur getting his blood? I seem to remember them saying that it was too dangerous to have Adam free, they might not have meant Adam himself was dangerous, but more that Adam's blood in Arthur's hands was dangerous.
 
The answer to the Hiro thing is that this is a fictional story -- much the same way that Nathan can fly without anything spewing out of him (for conservation of momentum). Now, that being said, I'm a nerd and I like to dissect things even though they are totally impossible: So, the real problems with Hiro's power: if he's stopping time, then light wouldn't reach him and he'd be blind. Also, since everything around him is frozen, he wouldn't be able to breathe. The only solution to the latter is if he has some kind of aura, so everything that surrounds him starts to move again, which would explain how he can manipulate a bullet hanging in mid-air. We also have a question/problem with range: is Hiro stopping time locally, meaning in his particular city, country, or planet, or is it universe-wide? Since he proves that it's possible to stop time, what about natural phenomena or other beings somewhere else in the universe? Are they affected? Alerted to the fact that he exists? Can he detect them when they do their own time stopping thing? With regard to his teleportation, how can he open a passage somewhere without actual coordinates, like when he traveled to New York? Even subconsciously, he doesn't know that Times Square is exactly X miles at 47.5 degrees from his present position. So, does he have mind powers as well? Does he reach out with psychic powers, get a lock on a particular location, then travel there? So many problems with all of their powers ... best not to think about them ...
 
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