HEROES 3x03 "One Of Us, One Of Them" Discuss and Grade

[RoJoHen]

^Because last season there were hints of her using some kind of persuasive power to get people to do things. I don't remember the details, but I think it was in the weird virus future.

 

[The Old Mixer]

She and Alejandro were wanted for murdering the entire wedding party, so they had to keep a low profile.

Too bad that didn't include staying off our TV's....

Why does everyone keep saying Angela has persuasion power? We learned last week that her power is her precognitive dreams.

Indeed, I think that everyone is just sticking to a conclusion that they jumped to last season when she convinced Nathan's wife to leave him on the basis that he was delusional. Her ability to manipulate people into doing what she wants is strictly a well-honed human talent as far as I can see.

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

She also did something similar to Matt when she found him snooping in her head.

And while they never explicitedly stated what her power was, there's no way, no how it was originally going to be empathic dreaming. If it were, she would have been the one to have seen and talked to Peter in the dream he had of her and Devereaux ("expert level manipulation" akin to the improved versions of telepathy Matt's dad had, for instance), not the other way around.

I'm also disappointed that it's been declared that Claire is immortal already. The implication in previous seasons was that as your power progressed over years and years, it improved. Matt's father being able to control people, Adam being truly immortal and not just resistant to damage, etc. But that seems to have gone out the door now.

Sure, it's the writer's and producer's right to change storylines and declare whatever they want to declare, but it ruins the consistancy of the story and leads to lots of <sighs> and "WTFs." Which sucks.

 

[The Old Mixer]

^She didn't use a power on Matt, she just figured out he was using telepathy and YELLED REALLY LOUD IN THERE to drive him out. Formidable willpower/mental control doesn't need to be a super-power, either. Remember how HRG hid his thoughts by thinking in Japanese?

I was under the impression that the visions were Deveaux's power, too...but it could be that encounter with Peter was something else entirely. Remember, he said that Peter was invisible...giving the impression that Peter had really travelled through time and was eavesdropping invisibly. After all, the scene Peter was witnessing of his first day on the job as a nurse was very literal...not at all like his and Angela's symbolic visions.

 

[stj]

Hot Mama was always suppposed to be Sarah Connor with Nathan as her John. Except that being Petrellis, Big Shots in the Company, being a good boy meant Nathan was raised to be a shark. His power of flight was ironic comment on his predetermined future. Poor Peter was too good to get with the program and became a hospice nurse. He naturally got the Kring Power of Goodness, which is infinite. I think the writers have made him a moron so that he doesn't end all possible storylines. If he was as smart and decisive as Nathan was written, Heroes would have been a miniseries.

Whether Hot Mama thinks her dream means she can safely play Sylar and get away with it, or whether she thinks playing Sylar is her only hope of surviving, is irrelevant. Her previous experience with locked in futures proves that prophecy can be undone by intervention from the future. Since Future Peter is right there intervening, she knows the dreams are unreliable. Loosing Sylar is like Peter running around until he got Ted's nuke power, instead of making sure he didn't get Ted's nuke power. She's an idiot. Now.

 

[DontFeedPhil]

It was implicitly implied that she has the power of persuasion last season. I dont remember what episode...
Um yeah...And Maya was just saving all that money she had so she could get to America and buy expensive clothes...
Its more likely that shes collecting some sort of mexican aide...where they come in to our country and dont pay income taxes and get free medical and all that stuff. Thats more likley than the idea that she was just saving her money and hoofing it thru South America.
If she Had money she could have purchased any number of modes of travel. And besides since when has any immigrant coming from South Of the border came here with money. They come here to make it and send it back home...

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Does Angela's comment about putting Gabriel up for adoption strike anyone as odd? He must have been born inbetween Nathan and Peter, and Nathan most likely would have been old enough to recall that Mommy was pregnant.

She's lying. She's not his mother at all. She's bullshitting him because she thinks that if she gets him under control what she saw in her dream won't happen.

Eh, if they back off Gabe being a Petrelli, it will come off as an aggravating cheat, just a cheap gimmick to goose the ratings for a while that had no other point. I think they're committed now for better or worse. The way the ratings are, I hope they realize they can't afford to annoy the viewers any further than they already did with S2...

 

[The Old Mixer]

^They acknowledged in this week's show that Angela might be lying, and Sylar knows it...some were way too quick to take her at her word and run with it after the previous week's tease.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Of course, she could be lying, that's always a possibility. I just don't see a way they could pull it off without the whole thing coming off as pretty cheap. If they were going with this idea, they should have realized there was no going back on it without the whole thing coming off looking pretty manipulative and idiotic. So far, they seem to have the right idea how to proceed and I'd hate to see them make a blunder that big.

Also, they really need to decide whether Angela's power is prophetic dreaming or manipulating people. Maybe it's both but those seem like too-dissimilar powers. It makes more sense for dual powers to be in the same theme - Matt's mental powers, Hiro's space/time manipulation.

 

[CommodoreKong]

Bennet and Sylar the next big cop and buddy duo

Yeah that actually worked out really well, too bad Sylar had to kill that guy, I wouldn't mind seeing them take down more people together.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Sylar didn't have to kill that guy (what was his name anyway? ) He just wanted to/was compelled to. As long as Angela "feeds" Sylar on a regular basis, I can see why he would be tame. Working for the Company is perfect for him, since they already track down dangerous mutants and can provide him a steady supply of braaaaains. Why rebel against such a perfect setup for him?

Which means that Sylar doesn't need to believe he's Angela's son, or be controlled by her power (if that's even her power) to decide that working for the Company suits him just fine. For him to be "doing good" for the Company because he's being manipulated is not a very interesting angle to pursue. For him to willingly decide that the alliance suits him is far more chilling and interesting.

 

[Dream]

^They acknowledged in this week's show that Angela might be lying, and Sylar knows it...some were way too quick to take her at her word and run with it after the previous week's tease.

I wouldn't be suprised if Angela turns on Sylar the moment he becomes too much of a problem.

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

Here's the weird thing.

Why does the Company just "arrest" and imprison these obviously psychotic and dangerous individuals. They obviously have no problem killing people on a whim, so why keep them around in a cell?

 

[CommodoreKong]

Here's the weird thing.

Why does the Company just "arrest" and imprison these obviously psychotic and dangerous individuals. They obviously have no problem killing people on a whim, so why keep them around in a cell?

To study them maybe?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Of course, she could be lying, that's always a possibility. I just don't see a way they could pull it off without the whole thing coming off as pretty cheap. If they were going with this idea, they should have realized there was no going back on it without the whole thing coming off looking pretty manipulative and idiotic. So far, they seem to have the right idea how to proceed and I'd hate to see them make a blunder that big.

It would come off as cheap if they'd given us every reason to believe it and no indication that it might not be true. What we got was a brief tease last episode, then this episode HRG brings up the possibility that Angela might be playing Sylar, and Sylar acknowledges it. They've set up that it might be a manipulative lie early on, so there'd be no cheapness or idiocy in going through with that angle. Some fans just ran with the possibility way too enthusiastically between episodes, rather than waiting and seeing how it played out in the next episode.

Also, they really need to decide whether Angela's power is prophetic dreaming or manipulating people. Maybe it's both but those seem like too-dissimilar powers.

They've never come out and said that her power was manipulation/persuasion...that was another assumption that fans ran with.

 

[Dream]

They've never come out and said that her power was manipulation/persuasion...that was another assumption that fans ran with.

Angela just likes touching people on the arm/shoulder when she talks to them. Nothing to do with persuation. The woman is good at manipulating people. Besides it's less impressive when she has to use powers to get people to do what she wants.

 

[The Old Mixer]

^My feelings exactly. She's just a Magnificent Bitch.

 

[Aragorn]

Comparing the pilot and the first few episodes through now, does it look like they didn't plan on giving her powers or having her know about powers?

 

[CommodoreKong]

They've never come out and said that her power was manipulation/persuasion...that was another assumption that fans ran with.

Angela just likes touching people on the arm/shoulder when she talks to them. Nothing to do with persuation. The woman is good at manipulating people. Besides it's less impressive when she has to use powers to get people to do what she wants.

Yeah they made it clear in the season premier her power was seeing the future in dreams.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

It would come off as cheap if they'd given us every reason to believe it and no indication that it might not be true.

It's still cheap because there's no reason for this plotline other than it will get people to watch the next few episodes. Sure, the ratings are iffy and they need all the help they can get, but I'd prefer if they try to maintain certain standards in their desperate scrabble for their next Nielsens gimmick.

A good plot twist is one that has something to do with the core of the character. For Sylar to simply be brainwashed says nothing about the character. For Sylar to be willingly playing along with the Company because his need for any easy access to brains tells us that he'll act cooperative as long as he is fed - he can be "good" just as easily as he's "evil." It's all in the motivation.

For Angela to have super duper mind control powers also opens up a can of worms. Why didn't she try this routine on Peter, who has more powers than Sylar and certainly is his inferior in both intellect and strength of will. He'd have been a total pushover.

But if they want to have Angela be lying, there needs to be some other surprise around the corner so it won't come off as such manipulative horsepucky. I'd prefer they go back to Ellen Greene being his real Mom and have his "mere watchmaker" Dad be Angela's brother. Or something like that, a half-truth that will justify using this plotline to begin with.

Angela just likes touching people on the arm/shoulder when she talks to them. Nothing to do with persuation. The woman is good at manipulating people. Besides it's less impressive when she has to use powers to get people to do what she wants.

True, I'd prefer her manipulative prowess to be a personality trait. Fobbing everything off on superpowers robs these characters of their individuality as people. (Which is why I object to Mo, Ando or Noah getting superpowers.)

But for her to totally bamboozle Sylar without superpowers seems very questionable. Peter, sure, but Sylar isn't an idiot. He's playing along because he finds it convenient. Maybe he doesn't even believe that Angela is his mother.

But if Sylar doesn't even believe it, then what's the point of having her tell the lie? Other than that they could use this angle as a cheap ratings ploy. Nah, there's no way to defend Angela's lie as anything but a gimmick. It's crappy writing, such a change for Heroes, huh?

The dead giveaway is how they touted this "secret" on the Internet before the season premiere - I still managed to be surprised because I didn't read any spoilers, but I do recall a lot of hooplah about "somebody being related to somebody else" (my guess was Sylar and Elle were siblings).

Okay, my REAL problem with this is that it is extremely open to abuse. What's the next "shocking secret" that they're going to trot out and then rescind when the PR value wears off? Nathan reveals that he's Jesus! Arthur Petrelli turns out to be Peter's son and therefore his own grandfather! Noah gets a sex change and becomes Noelle Bennett! Oops, just kidding! We were lying about all of it! Suckers!!!