HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Grade

[Guy Gardener]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Future Claire was going to shoot Future Peter because... He deserved it for being good or that he deserved it for being bad, because Claire was working for her father or... New Theory, if Nathan was going to do something or be responsible for doing something which required his assassination in "their" present, then why not go back in time and kill him again for "crimes" which he is going to commit and save the world a bit of strife?

I wonder if present Peter remembers Kaitland? i wonder if she's been tossed out with the bathwater as time collapses or if the future is reshaping itself around her like with the back to the future rules with jennifer being left in the future when marty and Doc went back to the past.

 

[captcalhoun]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

i've only seen episode 1 (damn you BBC, why couldn't you air them back-to-back?), but damn that was cool.

so, Angela's power is to dream the future?

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

i've only seen episode 1 (damn you BBC, why couldn't you air them back-to-back?), but damn that was cool.

so, Angela's power is to dream the future?

Was switching to BBC Three too hard for you?

 

[Sakrysta]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

I get the impression that they're aiming Claire toward an eventual villain arc. I don't expect them to turn her eeeeevil so much as damaged & misguided, possibly vengeful. This season has been much more interesting than last so far, though.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

If she can't feel then she can't sympathise, then she has no empathy then she'll stop caring about the little people. The world might as well be a cartoon about the origin of porridge for all the impact it has on her.

Evil is only a matter of perspective, but if she can't remember what feelings are, then she's going to have to work stuff out logically god help us all.

 

[Forbin]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Wait, wait - she can't feel physical pain. They said nothing about her "feelings" - her emotions.

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

She obviously has emotional issues, so it's pretty clear -- both plainly and contextually -- that it's just physical pain she doesn't feel anymore.

Honestly she should be able to turn into a pretty bad-ass fighting machine with that characteristic combined with her regeneration. She can push her muscles way beyond the norm. Broken bones will heal nearly as quickly as they break. The pain of getting shot or stabbed won't even slow her down unless the wounds would physically do so, and then only until she recovers. etc. It's pretty much where Wolverine gets his level of strength and endurance; he's no stronger than an ordinary human, he can just push past the envelope that stops everyone else from doing it.

 

[3D Master]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

She obviously has emotional issues, so it's pretty clear -- both plainly and contextually -- that it's just physical pain she doesn't feel anymore.

Honestly she should be able to turn into a pretty bad-ass fighting machine with that characteristic combined with her regeneration. She can push her muscles way beyond the norm. Broken bones will heal nearly as quickly as they break. The pain of getting shot or stabbed won't even slow her down unless the wounds would physically do so, and then only until she recovers. etc. It's pretty much where Wolverine gets his level of strength and endurance; he's no stronger than an ordinary human, he can just push past the envelope that stops everyone else from doing it.

Uh, actually Wolverine is a whole SHITLOAD stronger than a human. For one thing, he's carrying several hundred kilograms of metal bones along. And all that weight helps with fighting too. He just has to slam into someone to all but kill him.

Which is Claire's problem. She'll NEVER get stronger, if they keep it real. We gain strength because during training we rupture our muscles, and then they heal up with scar tissue, which makes us build muscle mass. Claire regenerates perfectly, so rupturing her muscles, gets her her previous muscles back perfectly, so she'll never grow muscles mass, so she'll never grow stronger.

Sucks to be Claire.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Wolverine didn't seem to have super human strength after magneto removed his skeleton in X-Men 25. Adamantium is not that heavy it would seem. During the dark phoenix saga a half unconscious Wolverine was rescued from a cage by Kitty Pride a tiny 13 year old girl who remarked upon how he was much heavier than he looked.

So carrying that weight made him humanly stronger but not super humanly stronger.

I made an assumption about her feelings considering how much of what we "feel" is tied into our biochemistry as explosions of different chemicals inside our bodies. I'm more than happy to be wrong about this.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

so, Angela's power is to dream the future?

We're not entirely sure - maybe Kring changed his mind about her power being "mind control" ish - maybe that was never her power anyway.

I think whatever the rationale or history, her power NOW is to dream the future and she doesn't have any degree of mind control power.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

If Angela had the same powers as Charles, does that mean that they're related? That Peter and Simone were cousins? But then I'm more than willing to believe that they're all cousins and different incestuous crossed bloodlines results in new and exciting powers, if not poor decision making and congenital idiocy.

Even though the powers come from the eclipse(s), I'm still thinking that something is going on with the cockroaches.

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

One thing we can discern from the Petrelli family is that powers aren't inherited. The potential to have a power is, yes, but not the actual powers. Every single one of them has a completely different and unrelated power.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

now although there might not be an infinite range of powers like there used to be in the X-men comics, that could just because people with powers are having sex with people with powers in the Petrelli family...

father and Son Parkman both exhibited the exact same ability and Mommy was not in the picture depicting the founding of the company so it's probable he frakked a norm and considering the nature of his powers and his personality type, she might have been as big a dupe as Sarah Sisko.

Was Hiro "claimed" like Claire was? I got that sort of vibe half way though season one but they didn't exactly make it clear one way or another, not that we know what Sulu's powers were or if his wife was only not a member of the board of the company because of old world Japanese Sexism which his daughter also bitched about, that mommy could have had powers too. She died in the 80s right?

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

I was speaking solely for the Petrelli family. I'm sorry for not making that clear.

As for Hiro, I do believe he is Sato's biological son. I haven't seen anything to indicate otherwise.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Power + Power = More power. Power + No power = Some Power.

In determining the attributes of the Petrelli's an external reference is useful in determining the nature of their isolated relationships. It's just basic science.

What happened to Angela's husband? Linderman killed him I think? Are we certain Mr Petrelli had powers? And even so, he can't have been too much of a bad ass if he was the whipped bitch of a healer.

Although you would have to wonder if Linderman could "unheal" people creating insanely terrible problems or could he "help" Cancer and other such problems, that he'd effectively had a "death touch" to meet out if you get on his wrong side.

 

[Snaploud]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Which is Claire's problem. She'll NEVER get stronger, if they keep it real. We gain strength because during training we rupture our muscles, and then they heal up with scar tissue, which makes us build muscle mass. Claire regenerates perfectly, so rupturing her muscles, gets her her previous muscles back perfectly, so she'll never grow muscles mass, so she'll never grow stronger.

Sucks to be Claire.

They may be able to get around all that if there's a mental control element to the healing process, but even if you're correct:

She's already quite physically fit (being a cheer-leader), so it may just be a matter of teaching her some martial arts moves. Sure, she won't be able to increase her strength, but martial arts isn't just about strength.

 

[3D Master]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Which is Claire's problem. She'll NEVER get stronger, if they keep it real. We gain strength because during training we rupture our muscles, and then they heal up with scar tissue, which makes us build muscle mass. Claire regenerates perfectly, so rupturing her muscles, gets her her previous muscles back perfectly, so she'll never grow muscles mass, so she'll never grow stronger.

Sucks to be Claire.

They may be able to get around all that if there's a mental control element to the healing process, but even if you're correct:

She's already quite physically fit (being a cheer-leader), so it may just be a matter of teaching her some martial arts moves. Sure, she won't be able to increase her strength, but martial arts isn't just about strength.

True, but it's a part of it. Or in other words, the stronger you are, the less skill you need to defeat someone. The weaker you are, the more skill you need to defeat someone. And sadly, the curve is in the favor of the stronger one. Why? Because if you're strong enough, a weaker person can hit him/her all they like, and he/she wouldn't feel a thing. The result being, that you need far more skill to defeat a stronger opponent, than you can lack skill to defeat a weaker one.

And the thing is, Claire isn't very strong at all. She's agile, and that's it.

 

[Snaploud]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Which is Claire's problem. She'll NEVER get stronger, if they keep it real. We gain strength because during training we rupture our muscles, and then they heal up with scar tissue, which makes us build muscle mass. Claire regenerates perfectly, so rupturing her muscles, gets her her previous muscles back perfectly, so she'll never grow muscles mass, so she'll never grow stronger.

Sucks to be Claire.

They may be able to get around all that if there's a mental control element to the healing process, but even if you're correct:

She's already quite physically fit (being a cheer-leader), so it may just be a matter of teaching her some martial arts moves. Sure, she won't be able to increase her strength, but martial arts isn't just about strength.

True, but it's a part of it. Or in other words, the stronger you are, the less skill you need to defeat someone. The weaker you are, the more skill you need to defeat someone. And sadly, the curve is in the favor of the stronger one. Why? Because if you're strong enough, a weaker person can hit him/her all they like, and he/she wouldn't feel a thing. The result being, that you need far more skill to defeat a stronger opponent, than you can lack skill to defeat a weaker one.

And the thing is, Claire isn't very strong at all. She's agile, and that's it.

Well, that would certainly explain why Future-Claire had a gun. She could become a fast-healing, gun-totting superhero/villain, and she gets to stay good-looking and physically fit for the rest of her life (which just might be eternity from the sound of it).

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Claire could use her invulnerability as a de facto offensive weapon by adopting a "suicide bomber" mentality. Forget the gun, just bring a grenade or a dozen grenades to every fight and don't worry about being caught in the explosion. How about radioactive material? Or just a gallon of gasoline and a match.

Dispensing with the need to defend yourself from harm would be a massive advantage in a fight. She just needs to avoid fights that involve nothing other than physical strength but given the vast range of possible weaponry, that shouldn't be a problem. "Official" weapons such as guns are designed to harm the opponent while not harming the user; Claire needs to think more creatively to find weapons that do massive harm to the opponent and to hell with what they do to the user.

She could even have weapons designed specifically for her own use, such as a sonic blast so severe that it kills anyone within range who doesn't happen to be invulnerable. Weapons that nobody would think to design, because they'd rebound on the user.