HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Grade
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3D Master
Rear Admiral
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
I don't find Reese all that either.
Of course, I'm Dutch, maybe Zeophite is as well? Our quality of women is so high, our scale is much higher. In other words, when you scale women from 1 to 10, the Netherlands has women that are scaled from 5 to 15.
True story: an overseas band has a concert, and they see nothing but hot women in the crowd. The men in the crowd, however, aren't hitting on them at all. So eventually in between songs they ask them, "Why aren't you hitting on the hot babes?"
The men: "Hot babes? Where? Where!?"
The band: "Right here, right in front of you!"
The men: "What!? Her!? That's not hot. That's barely average."
I don't find Reese all that either.
Of course, I'm Dutch, maybe Zeophite is as well? Our quality of women is so high, our scale is much higher. In other words, when you scale women from 1 to 10, the Netherlands has women that are scaled from 5 to 15.
True story: an overseas band has a concert, and they see nothing but hot women in the crowd. The men in the crowd, however, aren't hitting on them at all. So eventually in between songs they ask them, "Why aren't you hitting on the hot babes?"
The men: "Hot babes? Where? Where!?"
The band: "Right here, right in front of you!"
The men: "What!? Her!? That's not hot. That's barely average."
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
^
Sorry, not buying that explanation.
The worst things I can say about Heroes' female cast is that Hayden's too young and their make-up department hasn't done Ali Larter a single favour since she signed on. Neither of which are criticisms of the actresses themselves.
^
Sorry, not buying that explanation.
The worst things I can say about Heroes' female cast is that Hayden's too young and their make-up department hasn't done Ali Larter a single favour since she signed on. Neither of which are criticisms of the actresses themselves.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
Some points I haven't seen anyone bring up about Future Peter as Nathan's would-be assassin....Mind you, these are based on my memory of the Season 2 finale, not having rewatched it in a bit....
For one thing, AIR there was a camera in the vault in which the virus was destroyed, presumably the Company eavesdropping in on Nathan declaring his intention to "come out" to Peter and Matt. Now that's circumstantial, and may not have played a role in Nathan's shooting...but then we have HRG, who'd been in the custody of the Company, visiting his family long enough to tell them that he's made a deal with the Company that will keep his family safe. This led me to the conclusion that HRG was being blackmailed back into working for the Company, and had shot Nathan for them. Instead we see in Season 3 that his agreement was to be imprisoned on Level 5. Now the Company already had him in their custody...why would they need to make an agreement with him in order to keep him imprisoned? Are they so afraid of him that they'd not only put him in Level 5, but would need to force an agreement from him not to attempt escape...?
More damning is, IIRC, that Angela got a phone call, which we were only privy to her side of. She agreed that "it had to be done", but accused whoever was on the other end (whom I presumed to be Bob or some other representative of the Company) of having opened Pandora's Box. If they had no hand in shooting Nathan, what the hell were they talking about? And will it ever be followed up, or is it just a forgotten loose thread?
Some points I haven't seen anyone bring up about Future Peter as Nathan's would-be assassin....Mind you, these are based on my memory of the Season 2 finale, not having rewatched it in a bit....
For one thing, AIR there was a camera in the vault in which the virus was destroyed, presumably the Company eavesdropping in on Nathan declaring his intention to "come out" to Peter and Matt. Now that's circumstantial, and may not have played a role in Nathan's shooting...but then we have HRG, who'd been in the custody of the Company, visiting his family long enough to tell them that he's made a deal with the Company that will keep his family safe. This led me to the conclusion that HRG was being blackmailed back into working for the Company, and had shot Nathan for them. Instead we see in Season 3 that his agreement was to be imprisoned on Level 5. Now the Company already had him in their custody...why would they need to make an agreement with him in order to keep him imprisoned? Are they so afraid of him that they'd not only put him in Level 5, but would need to force an agreement from him not to attempt escape...?
More damning is, IIRC, that Angela got a phone call, which we were only privy to her side of. She agreed that "it had to be done", but accused whoever was on the other end (whom I presumed to be Bob or some other representative of the Company) of having opened Pandora's Box. If they had no hand in shooting Nathan, what the hell were they talking about? And will it ever be followed up, or is it just a forgotten loose thread?
A Clockwork Lim
Lieutenant Commander
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
There was a lot of rewriting going on. There's no way around it; it's clear intentions changed and they randomly rewrote things for their new story ideas in season three.
The two big ones being what you mentioned -- namely Noah not being the shooter and his agreement with the Company was apparently being re-imprisoned (wtf?), and the Company not being involved in the assassination attempt -- plus the change in Angela's power and the absurd claim that she was the source of Peter's empathic dreaming ability (despite it obviously being Devereau; and nevermind that we haven't seen a single Petrelli inherit a power even remotely linked to their parents). I remember noticing a few other minor things while I watched the first two episodes, but those are the only real stand-outs.
I did notice some foreshadowing about Syler in Angela's dream, though. It looked to me like he was stepping in to protect her rather than being one of the villain's she was dreaming about. Which, of course, fits in perfectly with her mindfuck about being his mother.
All that being said, I imagine it was decided that it was a necessary evil to rewrite things from their perspective. They wanted to bring the show back to what it was like in the first season rather than what it became in the second, so they may as well just redo it all and redistribute their obviously favorite powers to new/different characters. Seriously, did we really need another future-painter? It's not like we don't have a main character who can travel to the future or another two who can dream about it. Oy.
Anyway, I'd rather they had done it more elegantly than "fuck it, let's redo it and pray no one notices." But c'est la vie.
There was a lot of rewriting going on. There's no way around it; it's clear intentions changed and they randomly rewrote things for their new story ideas in season three.
The two big ones being what you mentioned -- namely Noah not being the shooter and his agreement with the Company was apparently being re-imprisoned (wtf?), and the Company not being involved in the assassination attempt -- plus the change in Angela's power and the absurd claim that she was the source of Peter's empathic dreaming ability (despite it obviously being Devereau; and nevermind that we haven't seen a single Petrelli inherit a power even remotely linked to their parents). I remember noticing a few other minor things while I watched the first two episodes, but those are the only real stand-outs.
I did notice some foreshadowing about Syler in Angela's dream, though. It looked to me like he was stepping in to protect her rather than being one of the villain's she was dreaming about. Which, of course, fits in perfectly with her mindfuck about being his mother.
All that being said, I imagine it was decided that it was a necessary evil to rewrite things from their perspective. They wanted to bring the show back to what it was like in the first season rather than what it became in the second, so they may as well just redo it all and redistribute their obviously favorite powers to new/different characters. Seriously, did we really need another future-painter? It's not like we don't have a main character who can travel to the future or another two who can dream about it. Oy.
Anyway, I'd rather they had done it more elegantly than "fuck it, let's redo it and pray no one notices." But c'est la vie.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
Dammit!!
Noah being the shooter would have been choice. Why on Earth was that possibility dropped? Noah doing it would have opened up a Pandora's box from hell because of Clare. When Nathan found out he would feel entitled to try and undermine Clare's attachment to Noah, and Peter would be right there in the middle of it. That's a major story right there. That's 10 times better than Peter shooting Nathan because he becomes a dick in the future.
Dammit!!
Noah being the shooter would have been choice. Why on Earth was that possibility dropped? Noah doing it would have opened up a Pandora's box from hell because of Clare. When Nathan found out he would feel entitled to try and undermine Clare's attachment to Noah, and Peter would be right there in the middle of it. That's a major story right there. That's 10 times better than Peter shooting Nathan because he becomes a dick in the future.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
Yeah, I originally assumed the shooter was Noah. Season 2 made it clear that Noah had to rejoin The Company in exchange for leaving Claire alone.
Angela's phone call now makes no sense.
Yeah, I originally assumed the shooter was Noah. Season 2 made it clear that Noah had to rejoin The Company in exchange for leaving Claire alone.
Angela's phone call now makes no sense.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
The orders from the suits tot he writers were clear. MORE TIME TRAVEL because it tests well with the focus groups. Isn't it ironic how focus groups sounds like fuck us groups, as if we're been gang banged by mundane opinions?
The shooter should have been Dick Chenney because Nathan is a turkey.
Dammit!!
The orders from the suits tot he writers were clear. MORE TIME TRAVEL because it tests well with the focus groups. Isn't it ironic how focus groups sounds like fuck us groups, as if we're been gang banged by mundane opinions?
The shooter should have been Dick Chenney because Nathan is a turkey.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
EDIT:
Not to mention Present Peter, the most powerful of all the supers, who could be big trouble for the Company and anyone else in his way if motivated to find and take down Nathan's assassins. Instead, Present Peter has been sidelined.
EDIT:
good friend of Cheney's.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
sigh. I didn't think of that. Present Peter compromising his moral principles in an effort to avenge Nathan would have been choice. You get the brothers' dynamic at the forefront, where it should be. You get brother saving brother and angsting for brother and supporting brother, which never gets old if the two actors have chemistry. You get the shit hitting the fan between Peter and Angela, Peter and Noah, and possibly Peter and Clare. All wonderful potential story.
sigh. What I'm afraid of is that the writers are too chicken to flat out write a story that Future Peter shot Nathan because, at some level, he wanted to shoot him out of anger for something Nathan will do in the future. I don't think they have the guts. They'll keep insisting he "had no choice," that he had to do it to change the future, which he didn't. Just teleport back before the conference.
sigh. I didn't think of that. Present Peter compromising his moral principles in an effort to avenge Nathan would have been choice. You get the brothers' dynamic at the forefront, where it should be. You get brother saving brother and angsting for brother and supporting brother, which never gets old if the two actors have chemistry. You get the shit hitting the fan between Peter and Angela, Peter and Noah, and possibly Peter and Clare. All wonderful potential story.
sigh. What I'm afraid of is that the writers are too chicken to flat out write a story that Future Peter shot Nathan because, at some level, he wanted to shoot him out of anger for something Nathan will do in the future. I don't think they have the guts. They'll keep insisting he "had no choice," that he had to do it to change the future, which he didn't. Just teleport back before the conference.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
So I just started watching Heroes...just finished season one and jumped into season three. I admit the "I am your mother" was a bit of a cheesy Star Wars rip, and Mohinder with The Fly bit, but otherwise two solid eps.
So I just started watching Heroes...just finished season one and jumped into season three. I admit the "I am your mother" was a bit of a cheesy Star Wars rip, and Mohinder with The Fly bit, but otherwise two solid eps.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
So you completely skipped season 2? Did you have any problem following what was going on the new season?
When you look at it the writers reset the show by getting rid of most of the new characters introduced last season. They wrote the premiere for people that gave up last year.
So I just started watching Heroes...just finished season one and jumped into season three. I admit the "I am your mother" was a bit of a cheesy Star Wars rip, and Mohinder with The Fly bit, but otherwise two solid eps.
So you completely skipped season 2? Did you have any problem following what was going on the new season?
When you look at it the writers reset the show by getting rid of most of the new characters introduced last season. They wrote the premiere for people that gave up last year.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
No, surprisingly, I wasn't lost
I'll catch season two later I guess
So I just started watching Heroes...just finished season one and jumped into season three. I admit the "I am your mother" was a bit of a cheesy Star Wars rip, and Mohinder with The Fly bit, but otherwise two solid eps.
So you completely skipped season 2? Did you have any problem following what was going on the new season?
When you look at it the writers reset the show by getting rid of most of the new characters introduced last season. They wrote the premiere for people that gave up last year.
No, surprisingly, I wasn't lost
I'll catch season two later I guess
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
I've just assumed, since seeing the new eps at least, that that call was to Linderman. She's dreamed this happening and Linderman's reappearance in Nathan's life so she was talking to him.
I've just assumed, since seeing the new eps at least, that that call was to Linderman. She's dreamed this happening and Linderman's reappearance in Nathan's life so she was talking to him.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
I spent a number of weeks in Utrecht, among other places in the country, and know the Netherlands well enough I guess. You do make a point. Nevertheless, while taste are individual, I wouldn't say any of the cast strays too far from the television standard of "attractive".
The show: I haven't waded through the comments only having watched the episodes last night. My initial impression is it it looks as though they simply shuffled the deck a bit and are going to give us some of the familiar in an unfamiliar way. The future is still ominous, but but some of the characters look to be taking on different roles or even sides, to prevent it. And, depending on what happens with the New Orleans characters, some cards may have even fallen out of the deck. In any case, it looks an entertaining enough set up.
Above Average
I spent a number of weeks in Utrecht, among other places in the country, and know the Netherlands well enough I guess. You do make a point. Nevertheless, while taste are individual, I wouldn't say any of the cast strays too far from the television standard of "attractive".
The show: I haven't waded through the comments only having watched the episodes last night. My initial impression is it it looks as though they simply shuffled the deck a bit and are going to give us some of the familiar in an unfamiliar way. The future is still ominous, but but some of the characters look to be taking on different roles or even sides, to prevent it. And, depending on what happens with the New Orleans characters, some cards may have even fallen out of the deck. In any case, it looks an entertaining enough set up.
Above Average
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
I can't be certain if he's talking about height or quality.
People inside the TV are not real, so they are not held to real standards.
I can't be certain if he's talking about height or quality.
People inside the TV are not real, so they are not held to real standards.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
It's the Internet. People enjoy bitching/having impossible standards that are far higher than they would actually employ in real life. You may have noticed this phenomenon.
Dania Ramirez is extremely good looking. She just has zero charisma and talent. Since it's a given that actors will be extremely good looking (unless they are extraordinary on the charisma or talent scale), it's not unfair to demand that they back up their looks with some combo of charisma or talent.
I'm still going with my "love can easily turn to hate" theory that Peter didn't have to shoot Nathan, he's just unbalanced and resentful because of his many personality flaws which could easily lead him into villainy. Self-pity is a big one for that. Villains often rationalize their behavior in terms of their own victimhood. I've been waiting for Peter to go back since early in S1. All the warning signs are there: immaturity, lack of thinking things through, overwrought emotional responses, self-pity. Yep, he's a nasty one.
*This being time travel, maybe it was the 20th option, and we just didn't see the other 19th times Peter tried to reason with Nathan?
It's the Internet. People enjoy bitching/having impossible standards that are far higher than they would actually employ in real life. You may have noticed this phenomenon.
Dania Ramirez is extremely good looking. She just has zero charisma and talent. Since it's a given that actors will be extremely good looking (unless they are extraordinary on the charisma or talent scale), it's not unfair to demand that they back up their looks with some combo of charisma or talent.
Someday someone should put you and Jayson in charge of a TV show. The results would be nothing short of amazing.
I thought Future Peter did shoot Nathan largely out of a gut-reaction/animosity to something we didn't see depicted onscreen (or a lot of somethings, building up over time) because to shoot Nathan as the first option* rather than to go back in time at some point where he could talk to the guy seems angry and irrational.
I'm still going with my "love can easily turn to hate" theory that Peter didn't have to shoot Nathan, he's just unbalanced and resentful because of his many personality flaws which could easily lead him into villainy. Self-pity is a big one for that. Villains often rationalize their behavior in terms of their own victimhood. I've been waiting for Peter to go back since early in S1. All the warning signs are there: immaturity, lack of thinking things through, overwrought emotional responses, self-pity. Yep, he's a nasty one.
*This being time travel, maybe it was the 20th option, and we just didn't see the other 19th times Peter tried to reason with Nathan?
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
something it took me a while to figure out about Voyagers year of hell, even though it was blatantly obvious is that we walked into the story 200 years late and time had been altered so many times between this episode and previsou episode that it should be a miricle if there still exists any established continuity at all. I'm not saying it has happened before but this might not be the first time that this Peter has tried to fix time failed and gone back for another do-over. He has the power to do it a million times over if another Peter from a different future timeline doesn't employ the same tactics since as Angela announced the other day that the home future from which this peter came from has vanished and doesn't exist any more. There could be thousands of Peters fighting cross the scape of Season 3 insisting that only they have the best plan to save the future, not that any of them would believe the rest of himself since there's became a degree of adamancy for this tyke which borders on insanity.
something it took me a while to figure out about Voyagers year of hell, even though it was blatantly obvious is that we walked into the story 200 years late and time had been altered so many times between this episode and previsou episode that it should be a miricle if there still exists any established continuity at all. I'm not saying it has happened before but this might not be the first time that this Peter has tried to fix time failed and gone back for another do-over. He has the power to do it a million times over if another Peter from a different future timeline doesn't employ the same tactics since as Angela announced the other day that the home future from which this peter came from has vanished and doesn't exist any more. There could be thousands of Peters fighting cross the scape of Season 3 insisting that only they have the best plan to save the future, not that any of them would believe the rest of himself since there's became a degree of adamancy for this tyke which borders on insanity.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
Several Peters trying to effect change? No, the writers couldn't keep that straight if they tried. At this point I'd be more impressed if Peter finally admitted he did it because he grew to hate Nathan and what he'd done in the future. I shot you because I wanted to. Changing events is a perk.
I'm serious. It would be more gutsy than anything else now that the damage is done. How do you forgive? There's your story. How do you--you being Nathan in this case--forgive? Really forgive? It would exploit their co-dependence on each other. They are Angela's children (unless Nathan ends up being adopted because TIIC want Claire and Peter to be able to date
). Those are some fucked up genes. Perhaps they're both predisposed to do evil, and they literally need one another so that both can stay "good." It would work in the bizarre Heroes universe.
Several Peters trying to effect change? No, the writers couldn't keep that straight if they tried. At this point I'd be more impressed if Peter finally admitted he did it because he grew to hate Nathan and what he'd done in the future. I shot you because I wanted to. Changing events is a perk.
I'm serious. It would be more gutsy than anything else now that the damage is done. How do you forgive? There's your story. How do you--you being Nathan in this case--forgive? Really forgive? It would exploit their co-dependence on each other. They are Angela's children (unless Nathan ends up being adopted because TIIC want Claire and Peter to be able to date
). Those are some fucked up genes. Perhaps they're both predisposed to do evil, and they literally need one another so that both can stay "good." It would work in the bizarre Heroes universe.Similar threads
