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Here's a Theory.

That Theory is...

  • Brilliant... And I'm very very drunk right now.

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • Brilliant... And I'm not even that drunk.

    Votes: 8 50.0%
  • Brilliant... And I'm always drunk.

    Votes: 6 37.5%

  • Total voters
    16

hux

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
In 2367, captain Telek - knowing that he was dying - sends the personal messages of the Voyager crew to Starfleet four years earlier than requested. He informs Starfleet of the future nature of these messages and advises that they not be sent to their families until 2371.

Starfleet are curious and read the messages and find them to be the harmless correspondence of a missing crew. It occurs to them that if the message are true, Voyager will be lost in the Delta quadrant in four years time. In dark rooms, quiet men discuss the implications and opportunities for Starfleet to learn about the Delta quadrant and the Borg in particular. It's a risk but the knowledge it might provide will be invaluable.

They allow events to unfold without interference.

On their return to Earth, Janeway is informed by Starfleet that they knew Voyager would be trapped in the Delta quadrant for 23 years but that the potential acquisition of information was too good an opportunity to miss. It has provided them with a great deal of profoundly useful information. They have discovered new technologies, weapons, ideas and all manner of things that have massively impacted upon Starfleet and the Federation.

The years go by and Janeway slowly but surely begins to resent that Starfleet allowed this to happen. Anger boils within her. She recognises that the vast majority of profoundly influential information was garnered during Voyager's final 16 years (the first 7 being pretty tedious) in the Delta quadrant. She plans to go back in time and bring Voyager home just before any of those influential years are experienced as a means of punishing Starfleet.

She succeeds.
 
I always liked Barclay's line "The Romulans have always been interested in Voyager"

Temporal Prime Directive.

Anyone using foreknowledge of the future to derail the future should be locked up.

Janeway punishing the Federation by doing to the Federation what the Federation did to Janeway isn't sheer elegance in it's simplicity... It's whackadoodle.
 
In 2367, captain Telek - knowing that he was dying - sends the personal messages of the Voyager crew to Starfleet four years earlier than requested. He informs Starfleet of the future nature of these messages and advises that they not be sent to their families until 2371.

Starfleet are curious and read the messages and find them to be the harmless correspondence of a missing crew. It occurs to them that if the message are true, Voyager will be lost in the Delta quadrant in four years time. In dark rooms, quiet men discuss the implications and opportunities for Starfleet to learn about the Delta quadrant and the Borg in particular. It's a risk but the knowledge it might provide will be invaluable.

They allow events to unfold without interference.

On their return to Earth, Janeway is informed by Starfleet that they knew Voyager would be trapped in the Delta quadrant for 23 years but that the potential acquisition of information was too good an opportunity to miss. It has provided them with a great deal of profoundly useful information. They have discovered new technologies, weapons, ideas and all manner of things that have massively impacted upon Starfleet and the Federation.

The years go by and Janeway slowly but surely begins to resent that Starfleet allowed this to happen. Anger boils within her. She recognises that the vast majority of profoundly influential information was garnered during Voyager's final 16 years (the first 7 being pretty tedious) in the Delta quadrant. She plans to go back in time and bring Voyager home just before any of those influential years are experienced as a means of punishing Starfleet.

She succeeds.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to vote under your rather straitened constraints, needlessly done I might add as the vote could be offered straight, so to speak. It's an extremely clever and considerate conceit that works in the consequences of a forgotten episode. Well, perhaps not quite forgotten, as the fact that communications wasn't reestablished with Starfleet until Pathfinder, the obvious conclusion is that for whatever reason, the messages weren't transmitted.

First, one has to ask with what degree of plausibility, would Starfleet accept the messages at face value to begin with, coming as they supposedly did from a class of ships, let alone this specific one that was three years away from going into service. If the original development efforts on the class had already begun by 2367, I guess that Command's concerns would revolve around threats regarding security, in that the Romulans would have appeared to being very well informed about a project that was just in its nascent stages. On the other hand, if that was the case, why would they reveal such an intelligence coup at all? Somehow force Starfleet to scrap the design? Thinking about it a bit more though, could these messages even possibly be forgeries at all? Wouldn't they bear markers that would make that potential explanation a near impossibility?

So accepting that Command would come to the conclusion that despite the operation of some paradox being present, these were genuine communications, what process of consideration would they employ to make a decision on what action, if any, to take? I wouldn't discount at least the possibility, perhaps likelihood even, of the cynical line of reasoning being employed by some members making their arguments. In opposition to that proposition would be the normative thinking that a such a concealment, condemning a Starfleet crew to a fate that they had no impact on deciding for themselves, would be inimical to the principles that the organization stood for. Additionally, a contention that would seem to be unknowable to answer and upon which the value of the proposal would ultimately come to depend on, is how could anyone make any kind of realistic guarantee that Voyager would ever make it back to the AQ considering the length of time it would take, barring finding some natural or alien advantage, the almost complete lack of understanding of the level of insuperable challenges the ship would face, and the one risk that they knew would be encountered, the Borg?

I would suggest that a kind of compromise within the realm of possibility that could be agreed upon, one that would allow foreknowledge of the mission at least to the captain, would be to allow the journey. but with the express intent of downloading the Caretaker's mechanism of both transporting and returning vessels the distance that would be required to reach the DQ and have Voyager use that knowledge to do the latter immediately. After all, the messages would've already disclosed that the means of return had been established by Tuvok upon examining those systems on the Array. In this way, if the reverse engineering could be done, and rapidly, an independent means of transporting Starfleet ships to the DQ, under their control could be implemented without having to be subsequently involved in the matter of the Caretaker, his demise, and immediate conflict with the Kazon. Of course to be able to reach such an ultimate goal, there would have to be a Starfleet source within the DQ to activate the transportation sequence. That might make letting Voyager make the trip when it did rather dicey, in depending on everything that needed to be accomplished aboard the Array would be comfortably done so in the limited amount of time available in that scenario. To preclude that limitation, the plan might be shifted to have either Voyager, if its construction could have been rushed, or simply the first Intrepid class ship completed the year before, undertake the mission earlier so as to avoid the above complications. That in itself would be problematic, by depending on the ship happening to encounter one of the displacement waves in that different timeframe. Also, there would be no way to be assured that the ship would emerge in the DQ in as operable condition that Voyager did originally.

It's an intriguing proposal, with so many potential permutations making a final reckoning so difficult to arrive upon, aside from the neat justification it would provide for the completion of the circle of the Voyager saga as we saw it, if that extreme determination would be the one arrived at. :techman: Perhaps, it warrants taking a drink or two after all,:lol:
 
Your thought experiment actually piqued my interest until I got to this part:

She recognises that the vast majority of profoundly influential information was garnered during Voyager's final 16 years (the first 7 being pretty tedious) in the Delta quadrant. She plans to go back in time and bring Voyager home just before any of those influential years are experienced as a means of punishing Starfleet.

She succeeds.

First, I don't quite get the "final 16 years" reference. Second, everything up to this point could have worked as a very intriguing episode, but using the reset button here would be a cop-out. If it was that easy to just go back in time and change things whenever Janeway felt like being a self-centered bitch, then there's no point in doing it at all. Plus, it's kinda pointless to punish Starfleet when any changes she might make will erase why Starfleet made the decision in the first place.
 
In the original Admiral Janeway Timeline, she got to the Borg transwarp hub on year 7 as well too, but this Kathryn Janeway was a wussy who ignored the hub and ran. It took Kathryn another 16 years to get home the long way around through the rest of the Delta Quadrant, a chunk of the Beta Quadrant and probably a fairly unexplored section of the Alpha Quadrant, before she finally hit known space and still way off in the distance the Federation Border which is still maybe 10 thousand light years from Earth at it's most unfair extreme.

Endgame doesn't even start until the 10th anniversary of Voyager's Homecoming to Earth itself

That's 26 years of everybugger's life experience in the universe flushed down the cosmic loo to save Seven of Nine.

Do you use restore points on your PC?

Have you ever had something go so wrong, that you've had to reboot your your computer at a 6 month old restore point?

That's time travel in a nutshell for everyone left behind who is demolished when the traveler starts changing ####.
 
I always liked Barclay's line "The Romulans have always been interested in Voyager".

I wonder what Telek did actually do with those messages?

Unfortunately, I'm unable to vote under your rather straitened constraints........[...]

Remember in "Workforce" when Tuvok explains why Jaffen's joke is funny. Well, I'm Jaffen.

First, I don't quite get the "final 16 years" reference. Second, everything up to this point could have worked as a very intriguing episode, but using the reset button here would be a cop-out. If it was that easy to just go back in time and change things whenever Janeway felt like being a self-centered bitch, then there's no point in doing it at all. Plus, it's kinda pointless to punish Starfleet when any changes she might make will erase why Starfleet made the decision in the first place.

Voyager originally took 23 years to get home until Janeway changed that in "Endgame."

Starfleet made the decision based on crew communications passed on to them by a Romulan who encountered Voyager in the first few months of it being trapped in the Delta quadrant so that wouldn't erase Starfleet's desire to make the decision. In fact, they're not even making a decision, they're simply letting things play out as they would have but with knowledge of them.

The only question is whether Janeway is cuckoo enough to bitch-slap Starfleet for not stopping them from going in the first place. I say she's just cuckoo enough.
 
The years go by and Janeway slowly but surely begins to resent that Starfleet allowed this to happen. Anger boils within her. She recognises that the vast majority of profoundly influential information was garnered during Voyager's final 16 years (the first 7 being pretty tedious) in the Delta quadrant. She plans to go back in time and bring Voyager home just before any of those influential years are experienced as a means of punishing Starfleet.

She succeeds.

So you are saying the reason Janeway did this was because she became mentally unhinged? Feasible I suppose. People are always going off the rails in the Star Trek Universe.

How would they be punished if the didn't know they were being punished? They would be unaware of the time change but I suppose as long as Admiral Janeway knows that is all that matters.

I'm curious..would they have kept Admiral Paris out of the loop of this conspiratorial ring?

I hope that sometime in the future we get a look in on the original 23 year journey in the lit-verse. We saw a glimpse in one of Beyer's books which was an interesting plot point but all it did was make me want to know more.
 
I always liked Barclay's line "The Romulans have always been interested in Voyager".

I wonder what Telek did actually do with those messages?
.

He seemed like a person of integrity, who was touched by Voyager's plight, embellished as it was by Janeway giving him the "you can understand comparative" pitch, as he certainly was duly impressed by its advanced technology. I would just speculate that he did plan to pass along the communications, without involving any higher-ups, but his death may very well have been a sudden one that precluded his having made plans that would have covered such an outcome. In that scenario, they may be in some case, boxed away somewhere, awaiting discovery by his widow or daughter sometime in the future. That would be a rather surprising find to come up with when looking through items that could be classified as possible family heirlooms!!!!
 
The Tal Shiar probably found out about the messages and took them from him. That would explain their interest in Voyager.

I always liked Barclay's line "The Romulans have always been interested in Voyager".

I wonder what Telek did actually do with those messages?
.

He seemed like a person of integrity, who was touched by Voyager's plight, embellished as it was by Janeway giving him the "you can understand comparative" pitch, as he certainly was duly impressed by its advanced technology. I would just speculate that he did plan to pass along the communications, without involving any higher-ups, but his death may very well have been a sudden one that precluded his having made plans that would have covered such an outcome. In that scenario, they may be in some case, boxed away somewhere, awaiting discovery by his widow or daughter sometime in the future. That would be a rather surprising find to come up with when looking through items that could be classified as possible family heirlooms!!!!

Let's hope they were discovered before Romulus exploded:lol:
 
You're all ignoring the obvious conspiracy, Korath surgically altered himself to appear Romulan to trick Voyager into turning left when it wanted to tun right, so that Janeway would be in the wrong position to steal his time machine 35 years later.

She stayed in the wrong position for the following four decades.
 
What if Janewy was part of the conspiracy all along and when Seven downloaded all that data and went loopy, she inadvertently comes close to unraveling it.

I'm sure there must be a way we can connect those messages from Telek to the eventual acquisition of future technology. When Voyager burst out of that Borg ship, it was covered in advanced technlogy from an alternate future so maybe we can weave it all together for the ultimate conspiracy.

I find it hard to believe Telek wouldn't make plans to deal with something as profound as future people and their messages. Unless - being a scientist - he just chucked them in a bin and chalked it down to "spacey type shenanigans"... "Meh, they'll probably be fine."

When Voyager got back (in either timeline) did anyone bother to find out?
 
I heard from a friend at Starfleet Headquarters that Admiral Janeway said "If that lying Romulan bastard wasn't dead already I'd hunt him down and kill him myself".
 
I heard from a friend at Starfleet Headquarters that Admiral Janeway said "If that lying Romulan bastard wasn't dead already I'd hunt him down and kill him myself".

:lol:


Anyway, I looked at Memory Beta to see if there were any follow-up in any book on Telek R'Mor but nothing so far.
 
There's a brilliant, mind-bending, time-travel loop here that brings the whole conspiracy together somehow.

Somebody should write it. Why hasn't somebody already written it?
 
A man invents a time machine and goes back in time to find all of his lost fan-fiction.

Why hasn't someone written that?
 
I heard from a friend at Starfleet Headquarters that Admiral Janeway said "If that lying Romulan bastard wasn't dead already I'd hunt him down and kill him myself".

:lol:


Anyway, I looked at Memory Beta to see if there were any follow-up in any book on Telek R'Mor but nothing so far.



Christie Golden's trilogy "Dark Matters' is all about him. :confused:

However there are also among my least favorites of the pre-relaunch books.
 
There's a brilliant, mind-bending, time-travel loop here that brings the whole conspiracy together somehow.

Somebody should write it. Why hasn't somebody already written it?

Maybe because a strong enough analgesic has yet to be developed that would be effective enough to deal with the incredibly big ass headaches that would be incurred by anyone unfortunate to read it. :lol:
 
9th episode of TNG, the Battle established as fact that headaches no longer exist in the 24th century.

Something to look forward to.
 
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