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Here it is - no bloody "A", "B" "C" or "D"

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Well, I've given myself time away from it, just to see if a fresh look would change my opinion. I still dislike it - not only because it appears to be strongly in violation of the existing 1701's dimensions (beyond even what we had to try and accomodate between TOS and TMP), but because aesthetically from the current angle it just looks badly proportioned. To top it off, the different hull styles (aztec->smooth) make this look like almost as much of a kluge as the abhorrent Ent-E.

I've noted Mr Church's (of whose 'Wars work I'm an immense fan) comments on the effects of camera distortion, and I'm willing to accept that it may look a lot better once we get better quality visual evidence. If it still can't be reconciled within the silhouettes of either TOS or TMP hull shapes though, I'll likely ignore both the ship and the film itself.

(And to those who seem to think that everyone on this board will go to see the film regardless: No. We don't all have more money than sense)

What I probably will do is defer to Vektor's superb design as being the "true" TOS Enterprise, while I go and bury myself in the heap of old TOS novels I have stashed away somewhere in my loft. There: I'll violate all existing and "new" canon with my personal version, and Paramount can go straight to hell, taking both the extremes of excessively whining canonistas and tasteless fanboys with it in one fell swoop. ;)
 
I really like it.

While those vektorvisual pictures are impressive, I find the original nacelles a bit of an eyesore no matter how you try to modernise them. I think a complete redesign was necessary.
 
(And to those who seem to think that everyone on this board will go to see the film regardless: No. We don't all have more money than sense)
How much does a cinema ticket cost where you live!:confused:
Going the cinema becomes alot cheaper when you sneak in your own drinks and sweets:devil:
Ill still go and see it, even if I dont know if I like the Enterprise (because obviously the way the ship looks or doesnt look is going to affect the story)
 
Well its subjective, but based on the collection of photo's I would have to say that I like the new Constitution class better than the NX-01 class, Excelsior class, Ambassador Class, and maybe even the Galaxy class.

Edit: and oh yeah the Sovereign class for sure.

I don't get that statement at all. All of those, IMHO, kick the new one's ass.

Yeah, but... uh... You actually like Enterprise. :rommie:

I have to admit that I'm a bit of a softy for BOTH versions of the Ambassador Class. My favorite, though, is the refit Constitution.
 
Not with that lighting or level of detail, but there's not a thing wrong with the design.
But it's someone else's design. Art directors and designers have to earn their money. You can't expect them to not create their own design, even if the original was perfect.

---------------

They didn't seem to earn their money on TWOK, TSFS, TVH, TFF, TUC, GEN, INS, or NEM then, since the Enterprise wasn't altered for any of them.
 
^

[pedant mode]

The Enterprise E model was changed slightly for Nemesis. In fact, some of its proportions were noticably altered.

[/pedant mode]
 
It was slight. But the changes are definitely there.

But that's not the point you were making obviously, I agree with you.
 
And Gabriel Koener's design is not better than this one. Sorry.

And my dad could beat up your dad.

My dad is dead, you heartless beast <sob>. Thanks so much for bringing up such a painful subject. Maybe you'd like to give me a nice paper cut and pour lemon juice on it. ;)

I turned down a three-way with two other girls last Friday night. They were practically begging. Seriously.

And yet you ask us to respect your judgment? :eek::wtf: :confused:
 
Sigh. And so it begins.
I clearly stated that everyone has a right to an opinion, so I'm not denigrating, or trying to make anyone look bad--some of you do an excellent job of that for yourselves. Is it beyond your comprehension
that, in 1969, or 1979, something that looked "futuristic" and new and bold
would not be able to present itself in that same way to a paying, movie-going audience in 2009?. Does the new Batmobile look like a customised
car from the mid-sixties, with silly tail fins and as long as a city block?
No--a modern audience would quite properly snicker and say what a silly, outdated, throwback it was and it would jar and remove the viewer from his movie-going experience and be a distraction. Personally, I do not want
that to happen with an audience watching any future Trek--and, understandably, neither do the people who are financing the new movie. I love the old Enterprise, but I don't see the harm in making her look a little more sleek and believable for a modern, sophisticated audience. The new design is not a turd, or crap, or any of the ugly terms you used to inflict your irrational hatred--IN MY OPINION. You can and do have your own opinion. Where is the fault, the foul? That I simply disagree?

Except for that annoying problem that the 60s Batmobile was made for comedy, a campy, totally silly, and ridiculous design. It was ridiculous in 60s and they did so DELIBERATEDLY. The Enterprise in contrast, was a serious design, and it still is; especially considering that the design of Starfleet ships in between hasn't changed much if any. The same basic things that made the original Enterprise look amazing, futuristic, and almost alien (rightly so) in design, is what made all subsequent ships and Enterprise do exactly that.

You can see from the model's made by fans how a faithful update makes the Enterprise looks every bit as amazing now, as it did when it first appeared on tv screens back in the day.

Instead, we get this missmatched abortion of a ship. It looks like they had a saucer of one ship left over, the neck of another, the engineering hull of a third, and somewhat new nacelles and then cobbled the thing together best they could. There is nothing in that ship that looks even remotely like a functional single design, and even if it did, it is ugly as hell to boot. Tiny, crunched together, with a seemingly puked out deflector dish as an afterthought, there is not a single bit of it that even remotely looks majestic - and indeed sleek; this turd is not sleek, not even close - as the Enterprise should.

In fact, the only thing that would allow me to look at that ship as functional; is if the original Enterprise is restored as an altered timeline is restored, and they deliberately made this new ship ugly as hell to highlight just how amazing the original ship really is. That way it would have a function.

Can you wrap your mind around the scientific advances that have ACTUALLY been made since 1966? The cell phone you probably carry around today is less than half the size of the original series communicators. Knowing that, should the NEW communicators in Trek XI be the same comparatively huge, boxy things that people will roll their eyes at and say "look how outdated and fake that looks?" Is that how you keep a beloved franchise current and alive?
Oh, god no, not this again. You see, unlike you, I actually understand exactly what technological advances have and have not been made in the past 40 years. You see, those cell phones, are piles of primitive junk. They wouldn't even allow you to speak to someone on the other side of a small town if there weren't a shitload of relay booster antennas in between. The communicators of Star Trek however, are fully self-contained subspace FTL transmitters that allow one to talk to a ship in orbit of a planet and even a good bit away from that with absolutely nothing in between.

And if audiences are too stupid to realize this, it probably should have to point that out to them in the movie - which is embarrassing, really. Once again we see how bad education really is.

Not to mention; even more embarrassing that simple fantasy movies like Star Wars get away without having to give Jedi Knights cool Jedi cell phones but still "stay current", but Star Trek that had more advanced technology ten years in advance of Star Wars, must turn their communicators into "cool cell phones, for the hip crowd."

When an artist creates a new painting, he actually creates a NEW painting. He doesn't "reimagine", "reboot" or "remake" his own creations. Nor does any artist later have the audacity to remake another artist's creation, like say, the Mona Lisa, give her eye shadow, thick lipstick, Gillian Anderson's face and blond hair, and claim it needed to be done to keep it "current" with the audience.

Oh, I don't know, because I actually want to be able to enjoy new GOOD Star Trek, that looks GOOD, and not more crap that gets dumped upon the old shows, and have it tarnish the original and get the reputation of the new crap.



No, actually, it cannot do whatever the hell it wants. A WARP drive actually has to WARP space and time, or else it's not a WARP drive. This isn't rocket science folks, it's simple language. A WARP drive has to WARP. If it doesn't WARP it's not a WARP drive.

Ah, yes, I see. 40 years of television history, technical manuals, and 14 years of an actual scientific mathematical theory, that's constantly being worked on, refined and discussed, but a few "rebooters" know better, and turn the warp drive into an impulse drive.

Or in other words; meaningless fantasy junk.

I'm so :techman:

But not really.

What do you think about the story as we know it thus far?
I've talked about that one when it first came out as well:

ANOTHER time travel story? :confused:

Like we didn't have enough of those already; 2 friggin' movies, and episode after episode. Couldn't they have come up with something... oh, I don't know... DIFFERENT? Something NEW? Something with... CHANGE?

And that never would have looked convincing on the big screen.

That's because that's a toy, but eh.

Let me show you a redesign, that keeps the original ship basically intact, and suffers no such trouble (as it's not a toy):

[Hotlinked images removed]
I absolutely love Vektors work! You know you look at the new uniforms for the movie and at a glace you know it is Star Trek. Then you see the new bridge and you say Apple store. Then you see the new "uglyprise" and you say oh my good! How can there designs miss the mark so much? ^ this is the direction they should have gone with for the new Enterprise!
 
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Sigh. And so it begins.
I clearly stated that everyone has a right to an opinion, so I'm not denigrating, or trying to make anyone look bad--some of you do an excellent job of that for yourselves. Is it beyond your comprehension
that, in 1969, or 1979, something that looked "futuristic" and new and bold
would not be able to present itself in that same way to a paying, movie-going audience in 2009?. Does the new Batmobile look like a customised
car from the mid-sixties, with silly tail fins and as long as a city block?
No--a modern audience would quite properly snicker and say what a silly, outdated, throwback it was and it would jar and remove the viewer from his movie-going experience and be a distraction. Personally, I do not want
that to happen with an audience watching any future Trek--and, understandably, neither do the people who are financing the new movie. I love the old Enterprise, but I don't see the harm in making her look a little more sleek and believable for a modern, sophisticated audience. The new design is not a turd, or crap, or any of the ugly terms you used to inflict your irrational hatred--IN MY OPINION. You can and do have your own opinion. Where is the fault, the foul? That I simply disagree?

Except for that annoying problem that the 60s Batmobile was made for comedy, a campy, totally silly, and ridiculous design. It was ridiculous in 60s and they did so DELIBERATEDLY. The Enterprise in contrast, was a serious design, and it still is; especially considering that the design of Starfleet ships in between hasn't changed much if any. The same basic things that made the original Enterprise look amazing, futuristic, and almost alien (rightly so) in design, is what made all subsequent ships and Enterprise do exactly that.

You can see from the model's made by fans how a faithful update makes the Enterprise looks every bit as amazing now, as it did when it first appeared on tv screens back in the day.

Instead, we get this missmatched abortion of a ship. It looks like they had a saucer of one ship left over, the neck of another, the engineering hull of a third, and somewhat new nacelles and then cobbled the thing together best they could. There is nothing in that ship that looks even remotely like a functional single design, and even if it did, it is ugly as hell to boot. Tiny, crunched together, with a seemingly puked out deflector dish as an afterthought, there is not a single bit of it that even remotely looks majestic - and indeed sleek; this turd is not sleek, not even close - as the Enterprise should.

In fact, the only thing that would allow me to look at that ship as functional; is if the original Enterprise is restored as an altered timeline is restored, and they deliberately made this new ship ugly as hell to highlight just how amazing the original ship really is. That way it would have a function.



Oh, god no, not this again. You see, unlike you, I actually understand exactly what technological advances have and have not been made in the past 40 years. You see, those cell phones, are piles of primitive junk. They wouldn't even allow you to speak to someone on the other side of a small town if there weren't a shitload of relay booster antennas in between. The communicators of Star Trek however, are fully self-contained subspace FTL transmitters that allow one to talk to a ship in orbit of a planet and even a good bit away from that with absolutely nothing in between.

And if audiences are too stupid to realize this, it probably should have to point that out to them in the movie - which is embarrassing, really. Once again we see how bad education really is.

Not to mention; even more embarrassing that simple fantasy movies like Star Wars get away without having to give Jedi Knights cool Jedi cell phones but still "stay current", but Star Trek that had more advanced technology ten years in advance of Star Wars, must turn their communicators into "cool cell phones, for the hip crowd."

When an artist creates a new painting, he actually creates a NEW painting. He doesn't "reimagine", "reboot" or "remake" his own creations. Nor does any artist later have the audacity to remake another artist's creation, like say, the Mona Lisa, give her eye shadow, thick lipstick, Gillian Anderson's face and blond hair, and claim it needed to be done to keep it "current" with the audience.

Oh, I don't know, because I actually want to be able to enjoy new GOOD Star Trek, that looks GOOD, and not more crap that gets dumped upon the old shows, and have it tarnish the original and get the reputation of the new crap.



No, actually, it cannot do whatever the hell it wants. A WARP drive actually has to WARP space and time, or else it's not a WARP drive. This isn't rocket science folks, it's simple language. A WARP drive has to WARP. If it doesn't WARP it's not a WARP drive.

Ah, yes, I see. 40 years of television history, technical manuals, and 14 years of an actual scientific mathematical theory, that's constantly being worked on, refined and discussed, but a few "rebooters" know better, and turn the warp drive into an impulse drive.

Or in other words; meaningless fantasy junk.

I'm so :techman:

But not really.

I've talked about that one when it first came out as well:

ANOTHER time travel story? :confused:

Like we didn't have enough of those already; 2 friggin' movies, and episode after episode. Couldn't they have come up with something... oh, I don't know... DIFFERENT? Something NEW? Something with... CHANGE?

And that never would have looked convincing on the big screen.

That's because that's a toy, but eh.

Let me show you a redesign, that keeps the original ship basically intact, and suffers no such trouble (as it's not a toy):

[Hotlinked images removed]
I absolutely love Vektors work! You know you look at the new uniforms for the movie and at a glace you know it is Star Trek. Then you see the new bridge and you say Apple store. Then you see the new "uglyprise" and you say oh my good! How can there designs miss the mark so much? ^ this is the direction they should have gone with for the new Enterprise!

I agree.

Its keeping the original as it was but slightly altering the surface detail at the same time, not raping it and leaving in a ditch for rodents and bugs to find.

Its good, but as said, its still the Enterprise with a little face lift and a few tatoos.:p

I follow Vektors work in Art, i used to post there but havnt had the time recently to contribute anything, wish i could.
 
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I absolutely love Vektors work! You know you look at the new uniforms for the movie and at a glace you know it is Star Trek. Then you see the new bridge and you say Apple store. Then you see the new "uglyprise" and you say oh my good! How can there designs miss the mark so much? ^ this is the direction they should have gone with for the new Enterprise!

I am not totally sure about this, but is Vekor's design not just a CG model with a lot of detail, or are there some subtle changes he made that I am not aware of.
 
The main problem I have with this ship is that it just does not really fit with the TOS and Film E. I mean, the E was already refit once and it came out perfect because they just enlarged and stylized the ship in somewhat timeless way. The engineering section looks like a bad Photoshop mistake and the ship, itself looks to pushed together, very stumpy. It just looks clunky and chunky. There is just none of the aesthetic beauty that the other ships in that collage have.
Well I think you can look at it two ways. First that this new design is something which works around the original design, OR you can imagine that this new design REPLACES the original in CANON. So the 60's TV Show was a low budget version of the new design.

Compare these two images, and tell me which looks more natural in the line of Enterprise Ships...

compare-canon.png
 
I absolutely love Vektors work! You know you look at the new uniforms for the movie and at a glace you know it is Star Trek. Then you see the new bridge and you say Apple store. Then you see the new "uglyprise" and you say oh my good! How can there designs miss the mark so much? ^ this is the direction they should have gone with for the new Enterprise!

I am not totally sure about this, but is Vekor's design not just a CG model with a lot of detail, or are there some subtle changes he made that I am not aware of.

Well, the nacelle pylons are swept back and a lot bigger, but you can't really tell except from a few angles.

The impulse engine is totally different and much more detailed. The ends of the nacelles are also shaped a lot differently than the TOS ship. The hangar looks a lot different. And I love the new deflector.
 
Compare these two images, and tell me which looks more natural in the line of Enterprise Ships...

compare-canon.png
To me they are about as related as each other, I know the TOS ship was supposed to be the TMP one but I never bought that outside of the story telling.

Same goes for the progression of ships, its like the A and B as well as the C and D look like they are from similar times but the D has very little to do with the E which I think looks more related to the A (this is getting hard to follow).
 
Except for that annoying problem that the 60s Batmobile was made for comedy, a campy, totally silly, and ridiculous design. It was ridiculous in 60s and they did so DELIBERATEDLY.
Except that isn't remotely true. The Barris design was based off of the Ford concept car, the Futura, which was built in Italy and had already appeared in other Hollywood films, and its length and size were not only consistent with cars of the era, it approximated the 1964 Batmobile of the comic books (dual fins, bat image in front, dark color, etc.) It was such a striking design it not only inspired (and still does) legions of fans, it ultimately was adopted by the comic books for a period as the Batmobile. While the show may have been conceived as camp, Barris did not set out to make a "campy, totally silly, and ridiculous design" but to create a vehicle (in three weeks) that melded imagination with an existing car platform, thus making a vehicle that was at once fantastic and plausible to TV audiences, not unlike James Bond's Tricked-out Aston Martin in Goldfinger.
 
The main problem I have with this ship is that it just does not really fit with the TOS and Film E. I mean, the E was already refit once and it came out perfect because they just enlarged and stylized the ship in somewhat timeless way. The engineering section looks like a bad Photoshop mistake and the ship, itself looks to pushed together, very stumpy. It just looks clunky and chunky. There is just none of the aesthetic beauty that the other ships in that collage have.
Well I think you can look at it two ways. First that this new design is something which works around the original design, OR you can imagine that this new design REPLACES the original in CANON. So the 60's TV Show was a low budget version of the new design.

Compare these two images, and tell me which looks more natural in the line of Enterprise Ships...

compare-canon.png

This is best comparison I've seen thus far.

Honesty, there's a world of difference between all of them. I don't see any obvious progression either way. The TOS ship tends to stand out because it looks primitive compared to the others.
 
Compare these two images, and tell me which looks more natural in the line of Enterprise Ships...

compare-canon.png
To me they are about as related as each other, I know the TOS ship was supposed to be the TMP one but I never bought that outside of the story telling.

Same goes for the progression of ships, its like the A and B as well as the C and D look like they are from similar times but the D has very little to do with the E which I think looks more related to the A (this is getting hard to follow).

Yeah, I kind of feel like this ship represents a new Constitution class design and that it would be kind of hard to fit it in with the established cannon. Not that it really matters though, if this movie is successful I am sure we will see a refit of this Ent., providing us with a separate line of ships.
 
I absolutely love Vektors work! You know you look at the new uniforms for the movie and at a glace you know it is Star Trek. Then you see the new bridge and you say Apple store. Then you see the new "uglyprise" and you say oh my good! How can there designs miss the mark so much? ^ this is the direction they should have gone with for the new Enterprise!

I am not totally sure about this, but is Vekor's design not just a CG model with a lot of detail, or are there some subtle changes he made that I am not aware of.

Well, the nacelle pylons are swept back and a lot bigger, but you can't really tell except from a few angles.

The impulse engine is totally different and much more detailed. The ends of the nacelles are also shaped a lot differently than the TOS ship. The hangar looks a lot different. And I love the new deflector.
Yet it still has all those damn Conduits exposed on the engine Nacelles. WHICH MAKES NO SHODDING SENSE BECAUSE IF THEY ARE POWER COUPLINGS OR HEAT SINKS THEY ARE A MAJOR WEAKPOINT IN A BATTLE.

And Trek had a lot of ship battles in it.

Look I'm glad fans love the original Enterprise but looking past that love and looking at the faults I HAVE ALWAYS FOUND IN JEFFERIES DESIGN.. I'll take skewed porportions and 50's muscle car accessories over something that if I had to defend my crew in I would end up dead because the other ship shot my engines out from under me.

Just saying.
 
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