Here is how I think the federation works without needing money.

[GabyBee]

Replicators would be limited by a society's energy capacity.

On Earth, it is implied that the global power grid, based at Lisbon, is capable of fulfilling seemingly limitless use of replicator technology. Even starships like U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-D seem to have energy production capabilities to provide limitless use of replicators so long as they are routinely re-supplied with dilithium.

On a world like Bajor, just coming out of the occupation, it is unlikely that they would have a comparable power grid to Earth's, and because of their political isolation in the early post-occupation years, sources of dilithium, or other raw materials with which to generate power, would be limited.

 

[Jayson1]

Possible, but I think this is from the same Federation News service, and they didn't pay him anything for the book he sold to them.

I remember thinking it was so strange when Picard says "Ale's for everyone!", and the everyone shouts their gratitude. Except you're thinking, 'if the drinks are free, why is everyone so surprised/grateful'?

Another strange thing is, that other cultures like Bajor and even Cardassia knew what replicators are and even have them, but yet have always claimed to have problems with scarcity. Yet for some reason, only earth (or the Federation?) knows how to eliminate need and poverty with theirs.

It's hard for me to believe they could have done this without replicators--or they would have to utilize slaughter houses, rely on farming, use manual labor to produce textile goods-- I've always assumed their post scarcity success-- as they've described it--had to be because of replicators.

And you have to think that earth should be a major immigration destination if there is no hunger or need for money there, yet so many other cultures struggle with poverty and need money .


If they ever do a post Nemesis series, I wonder if fans are going to start asking questions about the money thing.

It's possible that federation replicators are just 10 times more efficent than replicators from most other worlds. For example in "For the Cause" there is talk about industrial replicators going to Cardissia and it's also stated that Bajor was given some of these when they signed up with the Federation.
What is the difference between a industrial replicator and a regular replicator? Not sure how that impacts how they do commerce but it must factor in somehow.

Also do ya think it's possible that Starfleet is basically ran by a elected dictator but they consider this system as a democracy because the elections are, truly fair. Also is it possible that all manuel labor or other less than desireable jobs is done by prision inmates or at least supplemented by them? Maybe Paris was being literal in the pilot that he "was already doing a job for the federation."

Jason

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Also do ya think it's possible that Starfleet is basically ran by a elected dictator

Are you thinking of the Federation? No, it's run by the President who is popularly elected and not a dictator.

 

[Nightdiamond]

There was an episode where Picard delivers a portable replicator to the elderly stranded couple whose colony was destroyed by aliens. It was about the size of a printer, and Picard said it would provide for all their needs. From this, you might conclude no money is required for regular replicator use on earth, if this simple portable device can feed and clothe them for an unlimited number of years(decades/centuries?)

I can't see the federation being controlled by dictators--all things on the show points to a very democratic society. As far as certain things that seems oddly out of place in a democratic, libertarian, society that guarantees a lot of freedoms, there is the take it or leave it idea that women weren't allowed to be Starfleet captains in Kirk's time. There might be other things too here or there in some episodes that seem out of place in a society like Trek's.

 

[GabyBee]

As far as certain things that seems oddly out of place in a democratic, libertarian, society that guarantees a lot of freedoms, there is the take it or leave it idea that women weren't allowed to be Starfleet captains in Kirk's time. There might be other things too here or there in some episodes that seem out of place in a society like Trek's.

I level the blame for that more on TV executives in the 1960s than on the creators of Star Trek, who were, by all accounts, some of the most progressive minded people involved in TV of their era.

 

[Jayson1]

Are you thinking of the Federation? No, it's run by the President who is popularly elected and not a dictator.

Puttin wins elections in Russia and a lot of elections are won by dictators in other countries. It's ovious because the elections are rigged but what if you set up a system were the elections would be fair but whoever wins gets almost unlimited control over how the country functions for as long as his term runs. When it's up you in essence step down for whoever wins next.
You would still have things like a congress and whatnot but they would have no control to overide any command he/she makes or undo a veto he/she might make. There would be no Supreme Court as well to shut down a command. Congress would in essence be there to help shape the presidents law in a way that works. Your could say that the Presidents initial command would sort of be like the first draft of the script and Congres would be there to rewrite it and then send it back to President and they would repeat this until they finally come up with a law that the president likes.

Jason

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There is absolutely no evidence that Federation elections are rigged, or that the office of the President is anything other than what it appears to be: a freely elected leader who is responsible to the citizens of the Federation.

 

[GabyBee]

While the term 'president' does not inherently imply a democratic system of government, the Federation Charter does imply that the UFP is:

"We the lifeforms of the United Federation of Planets determined to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, and to reaffirm faith in the fundamental rights of sentient beings, in the dignity and worth of all lifeforms, in the equal rights of members of planetary systems large and small, and to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of interstellar law can be maintained, and to promote social progress and better standards of living on all worlds..."

 

[Tenacity]

On Earth, it is implied that the global power grid, based at Lisbon, is capable of fulfilling seemingly limitless use of replicator technology.

When did they come right out and say that? And did anyone say this "unlimited power" was without cost?

I remember thinking it was so strange when Picard says "Ale's for everyone!", and the everyone shouts their gratitude.

When Picard meets Jason Vigo (Picard's supposed son) and Vigo tells Picard he's unemployed, Picard is obviously taken back. In a Federation filled with slacker, why would it be odd for this young man to be unemployed?

And yet this has never been shown to happen on-screen.

Nor has it been stated that everything out of the replicator is free.

Are you thinking of the Federation? No, it's run by the President who is popularly elected and not a dictator.

But was he elected by the general populace, or was the president's party currently in majority, and he was elected by the leadership of the majority party?

 

[GabyBee]

Nor has it been stated that everything out of the replicator is free.

But it has been stated that money doesn't exist in the 24th Century, at least within the Federation, and no replicator has ever required any input other than a verbal command.

 

[Tenacity]

While the term 'president' does not inherently imply a democratic system of government, the Federation Charter does imply that the UFP is:

The portion of the charter you quoted is essentially the United Nations charater. The UN isn't even close to a democracy.

The United Nations is dominated by the Security Council " Five nations who were powerful at the time the UN was formed sit as permanent members, with another ten elected members with two-year terms. Any of the permanent members can veto any UN measure.

Is this the Federation? Maybe.

But it has been stated that money doesn't exist in the 24th Century, at least within the Federation

And then there's all the evidence that money does exist in the 24th century, including the Federation.

 

[GabyBee]

If there is money in the 24th century Federation, why do its citizens repeatedly say that there isn't?

 

[The Wormhole]

People also claim Starfleet isn't a military, doesn't make them right.

 

[GabyBee]

 

[Dispaminite]

I would imagine the Federation isn't a dictatorship, in that, they don't dictate how a planet is ran in as much as if you want to join the UFP, you're planet has to meet the qualifications (like no caste system). Each planet probably has it's own ruling body, with it's own elected/appointed/hereditary figures. For all we know England still has a Royal Family and Earth is ran by a Prime Minister in Berlin. All we know is that there is a Federation President, and a Federation Council and Starfleet, which runs the Federation as a whole.

I have to imagine living on Earth is like living in Washington DC. Separate Government but being the Capital of the Federation, subjected to the machinations of UFP leadership as a whole.

The DPO (Division of Planetary Operations) are based in Lisbon. They're computers were sabotaged in the DS9 two-parter "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost"

I doubt all the power generators are in Lisbon. Just the main offices.

 

[Shawnster]

Using Quark's as an example isn't sufficient. Quark's is a Ferengi restaurant on a Bajoran station. It's not connected to the Federation in any way. The best examples are Federation members on Federation worlds or stations.

Are you thinking of the Federation? No, it's run by the President who is popularly elected and not a dictator.

The President might be popularly elected, but I don't get the impression that it's like the President of the United States (or some other country). From the way DS9's "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost" presented it, I gather the Federation President is elected the same way the UN Secretary General is elected.

A comment about energy and scarcity. Every star system should have plenty of energy harnessed by 23rd century technology (let alone 24th). Our sun produces more energy than we can possibly use. A ring of solar collecting satellites could harness enough energy for billions of people.

Industrial replicators - in today's terminology we use "industrial" to refer to a tool or component that provides sufficient output for industrial needs. It means big, large, powerful, etc... An industrial strength vacuum would be incredibly strong. Industrial refrigerators would be large capacity. I took the industrial replicator to be large enough to replicate buildings or starships (or starship components) or large vehicles and equipment. We're not talking about a printer sized device that fits in a home but a large beast that fits in a building or in orbit.

I propose the next person who mentions Starfleet is/isn't a military buys everyone a round of their beverage of choice!

 

[Dispaminite]

Starfleet, in 21st century terms, would be the Federation's Uniformed Service. While being the UFPs military arm is not the primary mandate of Starfleet, it is part of it's mandate.

Sort of like if the Coast Guard became the primary uniformed service. It has a military aspect, but that, generally is not it's primary job.

 

[Jayson1]

Could it be that some of the reference's of Humans not using money be just propaganda that has been taught to every human from birth? Maybe the fact that money is used just for extra benefits as oposed to being needed as a means of your very survival will alter the way you think about what money is. Also if the goverment can dicate that you have to do a job but you don't get paid, you can parse language in all sorts of ways to make that sound like something that isn't a bad thing . Instead of slavery you use the term work requirement. As long as these people have the ability to also pursue other oppourtinities, and they never have to worry about dying in a street because of being so poor then I could see people just going along with it. You could say that the line about people "working to better themselves" is not all that different from "The American Dream". Maybe it's more of a slogan people bought into but not a complete acurate representation of how life works for Federation citizens.

Jason

 

[Ithekro]

That would only be true if other races that do use money didn't agree with the statement that the humans from Earth don't use money. The Ferengi agree with the statement.

Think about that. The money obsessed species agree that the humans don't use money.

 

[Jayson1]

That would only be true if other races that do use money didn't agree with the statement that the humans from Earth don't use money. The Ferengi agree with the statement.

Think about that. The money obsessed species agree that the humans don't use money.

I'm not sure if we have ever seen the Ferengi knowingly talk about humans not using money because they Starfleet does use money when dealing with aliens outside of the federation so I doubt they would much care if humans use it within the federation.

Jason