Help me decide- Original or Remastered DVDs?

[Kalontas]

Major sympathies for this, of course. I don't want to imagine what else was lost

Thanks for everyone's expressions.

As for what else was lost, let's just say it happened LAST SUMMER, and I'm only now starting to think about replacing my Trek stuff.

I'll leave to your imagination what else has been replaced over the months since then.

For the suggestion that I just consider which version is more to my liking, since I've seen both, that's the point. I have seen them, and love them both, so I wanted others to poke me a bit so's to see which way I slide.

For example (TOS-R):
Loved the blinking Gorn, hated the insertion of Shatner's voice-over on WNMHGB's themesong.

Auuuugggghhhh!!!!

Well then, to me the Remastered is better for generally better and more believable effects. But that's me. If you really like both, well, get the Blueray people mentioned with both of them, if you can. If you can't... wait until you can?

 

[GNDN]

Blu-ray player and S1 would prob cost about the same as getting 3 seasons on DVD. It would be a good start, give you both versions of some of the best ST eps ever produced, and look far better than you've ever seen 'em. Then just grab S2 and S3 as time and $$$ permits.

You had both sets, enjoyed 'em both. This way again have both, looking better than ever.

 

[Ssosmcin]

gastrof, I am so sorry you lost so much. I'm glad you are personally okay.

Choice 3: TOS DVD -- Some purists may point out something to do with the sound mix here, but I consider any such differences so minor and trivial compared to the other improvements offered by the remastering that I find nothing compelling about this set to recommend it (unless you wish the original VFX but cannot afford the blu ray)

As probably the one "purist" who has made the most noise about the sound mix, I'll chalk up the "trivial" aspect to personal preference. I do admit, I'm probably in the minority. That being said, the DVDs don't contain the original sound mix, so that's not an advantage to buying the set. The original sound mix is only available on the old VHS and Laserdisc editions (and the season one BDs), so that's not an option.

There ARE reasons, however, to get the standard DVD versions that don't include the sound.

1. If he didn't replace his HD TV there's NO point in buying a Blu-Ray player. The screen ratio is adjusted so 4:3 presentations, like Star Trek, will be made even smaller thanks to forced letterboxing. So it just comes down to a choice of which set to buy, which was his original question.

2. Even with an HD set, the original effects look better in standard def. Mike Okuda is right, the old effects don't hold up at all under the harsh light of HD and when they remastered them from the materials at hand, they wound up looking worse than before. Compare the opening shot of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" and see how incredibly grainy the original footage is on BD, but is a lot smoother on DVD. On a standard def TV, the DVDs look incredible. On an HD set, the standard DVDs still look great and the colors are not nearly as garish as the BD. I watched some episodes off the season 2 DVD set last night and enjoyed the original effects more on DVD than I do on BD.

There's not much else, really. I am of the mind that HD reveals too many faults and pulls the curtain back too far on old TV shows and movies. I was fine not seeing Shatner's toupee line, or his lace up boots in Arena, or the makeup seams on Spock's ears. The producers and staff used the lesser resolution to hide things. They're revealed now, which ruins the illusion. When you see a magician do a trick, you WANT to be fooled. You don't want to see or hear the forklift levitating the assistant. Also, the colors seem too bright and the rest of the image too dark in comparison to previous versions. I felt the DVDs got the picture just right and that BD was overkill. But, as with the sound mix, I'm sure I'm a party of one. Doesn't much matter, I have every version on video to watch according to my mood. Paramount got my money doeznes of times over for these episodes.

So, my recommendation, gastrof: if you didn't get an HDTV, I'd go with the original versions on DVD, because as much as I enjoy many of the CGI effects, I'll always want to watch the originals. If you have an HDTV and can get / or have a blu-ray player, see if you can get the sets. But the DVDs look fine in any event and do the original effects more justice.

 

[Patrick O'Brien]

Blu-ray TOS-R all the way The show looks great and you can watch the original version (if you want) too.

 

[Gary7]

As probably the one "purist" who has made the most noise about the sound mix, I'll chalk up the "trivial" aspect to personal preference. I do admit, I'm probably in the minority. That being said, the DVDs don't contain the original sound mix, so that's not an advantage to buying the set. The original sound mix is only available on the old VHS and Laserdisc editions (and the season one BDs), so that's not an option.

I don't understand how the sound would get worse with the remastering. They improved the video tremendously, so why wouldn't the same hold true for the audio? What was lost? Was an inexperienced sound engineer used that resulted in a loss of depth? I imagine you've already pontificated on it, so if you can point me to a single post that sums it up, that would be perfect.

1. If he didn't replace his HD TV there's NO point in buying a Blu-Ray player. The screen ratio is adjusted so 4:3 presentations, like Star Trek, will be made even smaller thanks to forced letterboxing. So it just comes down to a choice of which set to buy, which was his original question.

I beg to differ. If you lost your flat screen LCD TV, would you go back to a CRT? Even if you did, it would be a temporary measure. HD is here and it's best to be on board with it.

2. Even with an HD set, the original effects look better in standard def. Mike Okuda is right, the old effects don't hold up at all under the harsh light of HD and when they remastered them from the materials at hand, they wound up looking worse than before.

Interesting, as I'd not heard about this. Any HDTV worth a damn should be able to play 720p or possibly even 480p resolution. Just play it on a mode lower than 1080p.

There's not much else, really. I am of the mind that HD reveals too many faults and pulls the curtain back too far on old TV shows and movies. I was fine not seeing Shatner's toupee line, or his lace up boots in Arena, or the makeup seams on Spock's ears. The producers and staff used the lesser resolution to hide things. They're revealed now, which ruins the illusion. When you see a magician do a trick, you WANT to be fooled. You don't want to see or hear the forklift levitating the assistant. Also, the colors seem too bright and the rest of the image too dark in comparison to previous versions. I felt the DVDs got the picture just right and that BD was overkill.

I agree. While there's a certain novelty to seeing old TOS footage in modern HD with such clarity, it does take away a lot of what was originally intended. I too do not want to see all the flaws! I have the TOS-R with original effects and will probably not upgrade for the CGI effects, as I've found most of them to be a disappointment (although some of the CGI is a mastery of artistry, compelling me to perhaps buy select episode discs).

 

[Bones_McCoy21]

I hate to say this but I prefer the non remastered version. I watched my remastered version and watched how they did it. they tok WAY too many libertys. The gorn blinking comeon or the city behind them in that episode when the first beam down looked nothing like that. to me it ruins the integrety, gene rodenberrys dream, and the took unneded libertys. They ruuined americana!!!!!!!! I HATE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bixby]

I lost all my Trek recordings (tapes, home-made DVDs, storebought DVDs, everything) in a household disaster.

What was her name?

Best joke of the year!!

 

[Ssosmcin]

I don't understand how the sound would get worse with the remastering. They improved the video tremendously, so why wouldn't the same hold true for the audio? What was lost? Was an inexperienced sound engineer used that resulted in a loss of depth? I imagine you've already pontificated on it, so if you can point me to a single post that sums it up, that would be perfect.

Oh my, I have pontificated on this a great deal, but I'll try to be brief (I will fail). The original sound mix isn't of better quality. Of course not. But is IS the original sound mix, with all of the original sound effects and music as originally intended. When Trek was put on DVD, the mix was altered for surround sound, adding more sounds to the bridge, and during combat. The photon torpedo hits in Errand of Mercy's pre-credits now sound like the "door opening" sound effect has been repeatedly overlaid. The same sound is on the "memory beam" in The Paradise Syndrome. Photon torpedo sounds were added to Balance of Terror. They also screwed up the music for The Menagerie part 2 by putting in new music at the beginning of each act. Some are from the first Fred Steiner rerecording album from Varese Sarabande, but one is from The Doomsday Machine…a second season episode, as we know. A loud music sting from The Doomsday machine was tacked onto a dramatic speech in The Deadly Years. Finally, the engine “rumble” for the exterior scenes were originally in most of the first season’s episodes, but stopped about halfway through. The DVDs put that sound in every episode of each season. This rumble can still be heard on the "original mono broadcast tracks" on the last two seasons on BD.

Also, some of the Blu-Rays messed up and have the re-recorded version of the theme on both tracks, and the theme for WNMHGB has an audio jump that was never on any version of the episode released on home video. That version of the theme (the original Courage orchestration) is ONLY on WNMHGB now, instead of being on the first batch of episodes, as the DVDs restored.

Since I grew up listening to Trek on audio tape, the sound was actually more important to me than the picture. So I can watch the very low res VHS or Laserdisc copies and be just dandy. Having a super sharp picture isn't a deal maker or breaker for me. I'd rather have a less sharp picture that preserves the integrity of the original effects and a sound mix that was true to the original made back in the 60's. I've had these sounds ingrained in my head, so any changes seriously jump out at me. When I watch the BDs, it's ALWAYS with the mono mix. I also hate the rerecorded theme. Really wish they just left that alone.

I beg to differ. If you lost your flat screen LCD TV, would you go back to a CRT? Even if you did, it would be a temporary measure. HD is here and it's best to be on board with it.

No, but if I lost my HD TV and had to watch a tube set, my Blu-Ray Star Trek episodes wouldn't take up the whole screen anymore. The picture is still letter boxed, only with no information on the sides. So it looks like it's lost something like a third of its size. The standard DVDs, however, would fill the screen and look great on a non-HD screen. And really, spending whatever it is to get a really good HD TV might not be a priority. Plus, the DVDs while not as color popping and sharp as HD, still look great.

Interesting, as I'd not heard about this. Any HDTV worth a damn should be able to play 720p or possibly even 480p resolution. Just play it on a mode lower than 1080p.

The original effects DO look worse on the BDs than they do on the DVDs. Lower resolution is what they hid behind when they made them in the 60's. The higher the resolution, the more you see and the matte lines look more obvious, the edges of the ships are sharper, the stars can be seen thru the hull more easily, etc. The grain on the composited shots are incredible on BD. The shots look smoother on DVD. I really noticed it at the star of Let That Be Your Last Battlefield. The BD shot of the original footage of the Enterprise has TONS of grain. The DVD has much less.

I enjoy the Blu-Rays when I'm in the mood. The unaired version of WNMHGB is great and those effects DO hold up really well on HD, probably because the image didn't get any real restoration and sharpening. But I also equally enjoy the DVDs and Laserdiscs as well. It all depends on the mood I'm in.

 

[22 Stars]

The password is.... Bluray...

All my best.

 

[jayrath]

Somewhat off-topic, but I like my full run of the series on videocassettes just fine. But do you know what I really, really like?

Tuning in to MeTV every Saturday night and watching the episodes being broadcast all over again. It feels like an event -- which I'm sharing with other viewers across the country. I think there's a great deal to be said for watching it on-air, "live," so to speak.

 

[gastrof]

Somewhat off-topic, but I like my full run of the series on videocassettes just fine. But do you know what I really, really like?

Tuning in to MeTV every Saturday night and watching the episodes being broadcast all over again. It feels like an event -- which I'm sharing with other viewers across the country. I think there's a great deal to be said for watching it on-air, "live," so to speak.

You're killing me.

I also, whether having home-made recordings of a show, or even store-bought stuff, have also felt that watching when the show is actually airing on TV "feels better", because you know others are out there watching it at the same time.

I may begin recording them, since a local channel here recently began carrying MeTV. Naturally, I've missed earlier episodes, so with them only doing one a week, I'll have the "joy" of waiting about a year and a half to get them all, provided they keep showing them.

It's like TOS-R all over again!

 

[TOSalltheway]

Is it just me or does the CGI Enterprise just look a little too CGI ? The classic large model still looks best.

 

[gastrof]

Well, this thread is now moot, since I got the originals in the "tricorder" boxes.

Was surprised to note they used the broadcast order for that release, tho'.

If you can, I'd appreciate help in my current thread, involving the numbering system that was used with the production order, back when THAT was viewed as the "official" numbering system by websites (including startrek.com), fans, etc.

Thanks.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=162160