Hellboy II is gonna PWN Iron Man's ass!!!

[StarTrek1701]

Thanks largely to Robert Downey Jr., Iron Man is the rare comic book movie that seems to have emotional weight of a "real" movie, as opposed to something like The Dark Knight, which struck me as emotionally hollow and off-puttingly belonging to some long-past era that no longer has any relevance. Iron Man was very contemporary and relatable by comparison. I guess The Dark Knight seeming to belong to the 30s more than to contemporary times is a stylistic choice but it's an emotionally distancing choice.

What's the distinction? Because there are cliche, predictable Middle Eastern terrorists in Iron Man? What makes it contemporary and The Dark Knight not? I mean if you've been captured by Middle Eastern terrorists and held hostage for three months, you might be able to relate to Tony Stark or his cavaliar attitude towards life in general, but to me losing the woman you love, losing a close friend, and suffering by the actions of someone hellbent on causing destruction seem just a tad more relatable and contemporary.

I always get the feeling from your posts that in Christopher Nolan were to make a movie than you say lacks this and that, you'd be jumping up and down in high praise of the movie. Same goes with your obsession with Bryan Singer. What gives, dude? TDK was a masterpiece of a movie but Iron Man was a great movie also. I'd say on enjoyability level I enjoyed them both equally, but I enjoyed TDK more overall because of my bias towards Batman. Movie wise they are both the same though.

 

[JacksonArcher]

I always get the feeling from your posts that in Christopher Nolan were to make a movie than you say lacks this and that, you'd be jumping up and down in high praise of the movie. Same goes with your obsession with Bryan Singer. What gives, dude? TDK was a masterpiece of a movie but Iron Man was a great movie also. I'd say on enjoyability level I enjoyed them both equally, but I enjoyed TDK more overall because of my bias towards Batman. Movie wise they are both the same though.

Not sure what you're getting at. I really enjoyed Iron Man. It's one of my favorite films of the year. I just found it a tad more predictable and cliche than The Dark Knight. That's all I said. Honestly I don't love everything neither Chris Nolan or Bryan Singer has done. I thought Following was a decent effort, interesting but flawed, and I don't really even like Memento all that much. The Usual Suspects is good, but I think relies too much on its story gimmicks to sustain itself. Apt Pupil is just mediocre...I don't think Singer reached his grove until X2, honestly.

 

[Worf412]

Iron Man is the rare comic book movie that seems to have emotional weight of a "real" movie, as opposed to something like The Dark Knight, which struck me as emotionally hollow and off-puttingly belonging to some long-past era that no longer has any relevance.

Yeah... as we all know that Middle Eastern terrorists are ready, willing and able to kill each and every one of us at a moment's notice. But inner-city violence and corruption of elected officials? That's a thing of the past, a relic of a time long gone.

 

[stj]

I vehemently disagree with Temi about many things but she's right about this one.

The nihilist crap the Joker spouts is not even from the Thirties---it dates back to the Nineteenth Century. Jack London's Assassination Bureau does a good job riffing on it, as do some Russian novelists like Turgenev and Dostoyevsky. Joker as terrorist is not well integrated into the movie. (Precious little is, but that's another issue.) (The Assassination Bureau movie is charming but doesn't get the nihilist jargon down the way the short novel does.)

The portrayal of gangsters and urban corruption are straight out of Thirties movies though. Dark Knight isn't as blatant about Bruce Wayne=Little Orphan Annie as Batman Begins but it's still there in the background.

The Saw ripoff is the most contemporary part of Dark Knight.

As for the emotional truth? Harvey Dent was always Two-Face. Batman breaks Maroni's legs and gets the truth but merely beats on the Joker and gets taunted. Batman rejects lawlessness but uses the eeeevil cell phone/sonar. Batman chooses self-martyrdom at the end with the helpd of Jim Gordon who has no believable reason to cooperate, much less care. (I am perpetually amazed anyone watched the ending of Dark Knight without an impulse to laugh.) The dialogue was merely serviceable and the acting, especially Bale's, was merely mediocre. (I've seen Bale really act. He wasn't doing it in Dark Knight.)

The dialogue in Iron Man had real life to it. In my opinion that gives you vastly more connection to the characters right there. The Ten Rings were not cliche Muslim, even though it is painfully obvious that large portions of the audience saw cliche Muslims because that's whose asses they wanted kicked. And the terrorists in Iron Man were not absurdly impossible ueberterrorists with near supernatural abilities like the Joker. In my opinion, that alone makes them more relevant.

And, by the way, holding a discord may raise tension. Dark Knight's score certainly thought so. Even the Iron Man soundtrack was much more contemporary and lively, without such elementary stunts.

 

[sojourner]

The thing with Ironman is that to me, it is the most faithful movie to the source material since Superman:The Movie. It looked like the comic. it felt like the comic. No "re-imagining" of the character or his powers, no out of left field characters (Rachel Daws? where did she come from?). It just felt dead on to reading one of the issues of Ironman.
It did let me down in one respect. John Favreau broke down and used the conceit of all superhero movies where the hero is unmasked in the end. Batman Returns, Judge Dredd, all 3 Spiderman movies (Spidey really needs to get a better mask technology), Daredevil. I know it's so we can see the actor "emote" in the final confrontation, but it is quickly becoming a cliche'. And yes, there are exceptions.
Hellboy2 was a really good premise for a novel, without Hellboy in it, "What if Elves were real and decided to return?". but not such a good movie.
DarkKnight was an excellently crafted cinematic master piece. Was it "light entertainment"? No. And for that it suffers greatly on the personal "how many times will I re-watch this on DVD?" scale.

 

[Neroon]

Regarding the unmasking aspect in superhero movies, that hadn't occurred to me. In the case of Iron Man, we have Stark admitting in public that he IS Iron Man. Did that happen in the comics in any way?

 

[DWF]

Regarding the unmasking aspect in superhero movies, that hadn't occurred to me. In the case of Iron Man, we have Stark admitting in public that he IS Iron Man. Did that happen in the comics in any way?

Yes, I think he did it when he became Sec. of Defence a few years back. Spider-Man was unmasked as well but that was rebooted in the end by JMS.

 

[broberfett]

I liked them both, but the guy that makes Hellboy always makes very attractive movies.