" He'll live out the remainder of a normal life span..."

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Grant, May 25, 2019.

  1. Doug Otte

    Doug Otte Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I once read a Kawabata novel where the protagonist sees his father in the subway window, then realizes he's seeing his own reflection! Of course, it's a comment on aging and how we perceive ourselves.

    Not too many years after reading it, I experienced the same scenario on DC's Metro!
     
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  2. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Flint struct me as wanting intellectual companionship more than sex.
     
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  3. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So he made himself a much younger, very beautiful companion...
     
  4. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    I think I recall researchers finding that just the sight of a beautiful face stimulates the pleasure center in the brain. We get a little dopamine hit or something, which is why men with no shot will still steal lots of glances at the most beautiful woman in a gathering.

    But that brain chemistry thing wasn't discovered until recently. It's just one more case of Star Trek being way ahead of its time, somehow predicting that an incredibly hot woman would be a man's preference. :)
     
  5. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    This thread is absolute top-shelf stuff. Great observations from pretty much everyone.

    The mirror concept is fascinating (to coin a phrase). I had never heard that before. It reminds me of (but is deeper and ultimately more interesting than) the phenomenon where you don't notice gradual aging in people you see regularly, but are often amazed by the level of aging in people you haven't seen in a very long time.

    Right! I viewed it as more of something to help Kirk cope, not a mindwipe. And I feel that Spock only does it because McCoy suggests it, and Spock deems the doctor's suggestion wise and kind. It's frankly a beautiful moment.

    :lol: Not a bad take. I've never seen it that way (although I get your point), but probably because I didn't think Louise Sorel looked particularly young. She looked great, mind you, but she always skewed older in terms of my impression of her, so she and Flint seemed well-matched. Also, Bill Theiss and the costume department really helped with this. If Rayna had been outfitted like (even just staying in late S2 and S3) Deela, Kelinda/Drea, Kara & Co., or goodness me, Droxine, then I would be right there with you.

    Yes, quite the jump on their part. :bolian: It's gotta be up there with predicting/influencing the cell phone!
     
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  6. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Meh. I still feel the ending implies that Kirk's feelings for Edith Keeler, among others, must have somehow been less substantive, since he didn't seem to need any help in those cases.

    It also arguably weakens Kirk as a character if one relationship (and how long were they even on the planet?) compromises Kirk that badly.

    Also, IIRC, Kirk didn't ask for that kind of help, which makes it a bit of a consent issue.
     
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  7. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Although I disagree in principle with what Carol Marcus did, (regarding contact with David) I can understand why, Kirk's 'great love' is fickle, except to a metal ship and his friends.
     
  8. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Well, there wasn't a strong sense of tight continuity, as each episode was a standalone story.

    Kor
     
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  9. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    1. I think what they were going for was that Kirk was drained and exhausted by the ship's dilemma. Again, making it a "reverse bottle show" with almost all of the action taking place on the planet(oid) minimized the extent of the disease ravaging the ship, and a few more lines of dialogue might have helped this.

    2. Kirk says, "If only I could forget." I think that works for me (and Spock). But YMMV. :shrug:
     
  10. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Regarding point #2, I think it could be argued that Kirk was saying that wistfully and without really expecting it to be taken seriously, much like I might say, "If only all homophobes could be put on an island and the island nuked..." But I'm going from memory here; I haven't seen the episode in years.

    Apropos of nothing, I'm perversely pleased that my comment generated three different responses. :)
     
  11. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

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    Re. Spocko, I mean sometimes people don't do the right thing. He was concerned about his friend and acted. It humanizes Spock.
     
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  12. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Interesting. Flint was designed to be a life rotting away; he benefitted from immortality for centuries, looking down his nose at the common, cruel people and as a result, forced himself into a life of loneliness. In using Kirk to humanize Rayna, he paid a final price for his behavior, one that would leave him condemned to loneliness until death. Its fitting that he was no longer immortal; for as much as he tried to turn an android into a person, the loss of Rayna would be the one thing to finally make him act like a human...perhaps too late to understand what that meant.


    ..and strong for McCoy. So late in the series--nearly the end--and they continued to build--in convincing fashion--on the friendship between the Big Three, that made . That's rare for TV series close to its final episode.
     
  13. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They have ship's historians for that, instead of the second in command/science officer.
     
  14. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    Exactly my thought. The guy writing "Requiem for Methuselah" wasn't thinking about how it relates to COTEOF. He wanted his episode to be the big one, the one with emotional impact. And there was a requirement that the episodes be viewable in any order, because of the technological limitations that syndication, if any, would hopefully impose. Reels of film would have to shipped to stations around the country.

    And at the time, there was almost no such thing as viewers who've memorized every episode. That phenomenon was just coming into existence with The Honeymooners and I Love Lucy, but even those fans couldn't connect and have a national conversation. Their devotion was a private matter.

    Star Trek had fanzines and a presence at sci-fi conventions during its first run, but that was tiny, and nobody knew that endless syndication, home video, and the Internet would result in such in-depth studies of the show.
     
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  15. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not at all! Kirk's recovery from Edith's death may have taken a long time and he just didn't show it or he locked himself up in his quarters for a time after beaming back to the ship! A consent issue perhaps, but Spock's interference may have lessened the impact of Rayna's loss to Kirk! :biggrin:
    JB
     
  16. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But should Kirk need that kind of intervention to get over the loss of a woman he knew for...what, a week, tops (seriously, I don't recall the timespan of the episode)? Is this really any worse than many other situations we see him deal with in TOS?
     
  17. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

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    The heart is unpredictable. He was really tired. Been out on mission for years at that point. He's human.
     
  18. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He only works in outer space! :techman:
    JB
     
  19. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You think the journey was starting to feel episodic? (ducks)
     
  20. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    In the episode's intended light, and the way I watch it, Kirk is the romantic hero, stopping on his dramatic voyage, and he's "right" in his feelings for this compelling woman. "Requiem" is like a little story within a long Greek epic. Star Trek as The Odyssey.

    If you disallow the romantic filter and impose an unintended gritty realism, it doesn't work. Kirk can then be seen as irresponsible and impetuous, to seemingly put the ship's epidemic second and fall in love so fast. And that's wrong. The show is meant as a compressed vignette of falling in love, a stage for emotions to be acted out in a brief play.

    Star Trek (TOS) is not gritty realism. It's romantic art.