" He'll live out the remainder of a normal life span..."

[Doug Otte]

There's a phenomenon in which you see yourself in a department store mirror, and see the "self" you expect. But then another shopper appears in the glass, and in an instant you see your face very differently.

When you see your face in a social context, your mind can no longer apply whatever flattering "filters" it likes. The second person comes in like sudden, harsh lighting. Flint went a long time with no social context in the mirror, because Rayna was really just an extension of how he saw himself. She saw him through his eyes, as a unit built and programmed by him.

I once read a Kawabata novel where the protagonist sees his father in the subway window, then realizes he's seeing his own reflection! Of course, it's a comment on aging and how we perceive ourselves.

Not too many years after reading it, I experienced the same scenario on DC's Metro!

 

[Ronald Held]

Flint struct me as wanting intellectual companionship more than sex.

 

[Nyotarules]

Flint struct me as wanting intellectual companionship more than sex.

So he made himself a much younger, very beautiful companion...

 

[ZapBrannigan]

So he made himself a much younger, very beautiful companion...

I think I recall researchers finding that just the sight of a beautiful face stimulates the pleasure center in the brain. We get a little dopamine hit or something, which is why men with no shot will still steal lots of glances at the most beautiful woman in a gathering.

But that brain chemistry thing wasn't discovered until recently. It's just one more case of Star Trek being way ahead of its time, somehow predicting that an incredibly hot woman would be a man's preference.

 

[Phaser Two]

This thread is absolute top-shelf stuff. Great observations from pretty much everyone.

There's a phenomenon in which you see yourself in a department store mirror, and see the "self" you expect. But then another shopper appears in the glass, and in an instant you see your face very differently.

When you see your face in a social context, your mind can no longer apply whatever flattering "filters" it likes. The second person comes in like sudden, harsh lighting. Flint went a long time with no social context in the mirror, because Rayna was really just an extension of how he saw himself. She saw him through his eyes, as a unit built and programmed by him.

The mirror concept is fascinating (to coin a phrase). I had never heard that before. It reminds me of (but is deeper and ultimately more interesting than) the phenomenon where you don't notice gradual aging in people you see regularly, but are often amazed by the level of aging in people you haven't seen in a very long time.

I wouldn't say mind wipes but puts the suggestion to forget about Rayna just a little bit...
JB

Right! I viewed it as more of something to help Kirk cope, not a mindwipe. And I feel that Spock only does it because McCoy suggests it, and Spock deems the doctor's suggestion wise and kind. It's frankly a beautiful moment.

Anytime I watch Requiem my thoughts are 'typical old man makes android young enough to be his grand daughter rather than someone who looks close to the age on his face'. Flint was having a mid- millenia life crisis lol

Not a bad take. I've never seen it that way (although I get your point), but probably because I didn't think Louise Sorel looked particularly young. She looked great, mind you, but she always skewed older in terms of my impression of her, so she and Flint seemed well-matched. Also, Bill Theiss and the costume department really helped with this. If Rayna had been outfitted like (even just staying in late S2 and S3) Deela, Kelinda/Drea, Kara & Co., or goodness me, Droxine, then I would be right there with you.

I think I recall researchers finding that just the sight of a beautiful face stimulates the pleasure center in the brain. We get a little dopamine hit or something, which is why men with no shot will still steal lots of glances at the most beautiful woman in a gathering.

But that brain chemistry thing wasn't discovered until recently. It's just one more case of Star Trek being way ahead of its time, somehow predicting that an incredibly hot woman would be a man's preference.

Yes, quite the jump on their part. It's gotta be up there with predicting/influencing the cell phone!

 

[DonIago]

Meh. I still feel the ending implies that Kirk's feelings for Edith Keeler, among others, must have somehow been less substantive, since he didn't seem to need any help in those cases.

It also arguably weakens Kirk as a character if one relationship (and how long were they even on the planet?) compromises Kirk that badly.

Also, IIRC, Kirk didn't ask for that kind of help, which makes it a bit of a consent issue.

 

[Nyotarules]

Meh. I still feel the ending implies that Kirk's feelings for Edith Keeler, among others, must have somehow been less substantive, since he didn't seem to need any help in those cases.

It also arguably weakens Kirk as a character if one relationship (and how long were they even on the planet?) compromises Kirk that badly.

Also, IIRC, Kirk didn't ask for that kind of help, which makes it a bit of a consent issue.

Although I disagree in principle with what Carol Marcus did, (regarding contact with David) I can understand why, Kirk's 'great love' is fickle, except to a metal ship and his friends.

 

[Kor]

Meh. I still feel the ending implies that Kirk's feelings for Edith Keeler, among others, must have somehow been less substantive, since he didn't seem to need any help in those cases.

It also arguably weakens Kirk as a character if one relationship (and how long were they even on the planet?) compromises Kirk that badly.

Also, IIRC, Kirk didn't ask for that kind of help, which makes it a bit of a consent issue.

Well, there wasn't a strong sense of tight continuity, as each episode was a standalone story.

Kor

 

[Phaser Two]

Meh. I still feel the ending implies that Kirk's feelings for Edith Keeler, among others, must have somehow been less substantive, since he didn't seem to need any help in those cases.

It also arguably weakens Kirk as a character if one relationship (and how long were they even on the planet?) compromises Kirk that badly.

Also, IIRC, Kirk didn't ask for that kind of help, which makes it a bit of a consent issue.

1. I think what they were going for was that Kirk was drained and exhausted by the ship's dilemma. Again, making it a "reverse bottle show" with almost all of the action taking place on the planet(oid) minimized the extent of the disease ravaging the ship, and a few more lines of dialogue might have helped this.

2. Kirk says, "If only I could forget." I think that works for me (and Spock). But YMMV.

 

[DonIago]

Regarding point #2, I think it could be argued that Kirk was saying that wistfully and without really expecting it to be taken seriously, much like I might say, "If only all homophobes could be put on an island and the island nuked..." But I'm going from memory here; I haven't seen the episode in years.

Apropos of nothing, I'm perversely pleased that my comment generated three different responses.

 

[plynch]

Re. Spocko, I mean sometimes people don't do the right thing. He was concerned about his friend and acted. It humanizes Spock.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I always thought it was done because he was a tragic character, he watched every partner, every friend die for thousands of years, then he build an android who wouldn't age and he even lost her. His immortality was a curse, the writers taking it away wasn't a punishment.

Interesting. Flint was designed to be a life rotting away; he benefitted from immortality for centuries, looking down his nose at the common, cruel people and as a result, forced himself into a life of loneliness. In using Kirk to humanize Rayna, he paid a final price for his behavior, one that would leave him condemned to loneliness until death. Its fitting that he was no longer immortal; for as much as he tried to turn an android into a person, the loss of Rayna would be the one thing to finally make him act like a human...perhaps too late to understand what that meant.

Doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I imagine Flint suspected it. And it leads to Spock's "On that day I shall mourn" line.

Requiem is one of the strongest Spock episodes in the entire series.

..and strong for McCoy. So late in the series--nearly the end--and they continued to build--in convincing fashion--on the friendship between the Big Three, that made . That's rare for TV series close to its final episode.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Spock is a fool (going of his own quote in City on the Edge of Forever). Flint is a gold mine of historical facts. Once their mutual enmity had been resolved and the Enterprise was on its way with the cure, Spock could have stayed behind with a recorder and interviewed Flint about his entire life. First hand eyewitness accounts of 5,000 years of living thru history!

They have ship's historians for that, instead of the second in command/science officer.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Well, there wasn't a strong sense of tight continuity, as each episode was a standalone story.

Exactly my thought. The guy writing "Requiem for Methuselah" wasn't thinking about how it relates to COTEOF. He wanted his episode to be the big one, the one with emotional impact. And there was a requirement that the episodes be viewable in any order, because of the technological limitations that syndication, if any, would hopefully impose. Reels of film would have to shipped to stations around the country.

And at the time, there was almost no such thing as viewers who've memorized every episode. That phenomenon was just coming into existence with The Honeymooners and I Love Lucy, but even those fans couldn't connect and have a national conversation. Their devotion was a private matter.

Star Trek had fanzines and a presence at sci-fi conventions during its first run, but that was tiny, and nobody knew that endless syndication, home video, and the Internet would result in such in-depth studies of the show.

 

[johnnybear]

Meh. I still feel the ending implies that Kirk's feelings for Edith Keeler, among others, must have somehow been less substantive, since he didn't seem to need any help in those cases.

It also arguably weakens Kirk as a character if one relationship (and how long were they even on the planet?) compromises Kirk that badly.

Also, IIRC, Kirk didn't ask for that kind of help, which makes it a bit of a consent issue.

Not at all! Kirk's recovery from Edith's death may have taken a long time and he just didn't show it or he locked himself up in his quarters for a time after beaming back to the ship! A consent issue perhaps, but Spock's interference may have lessened the impact of Rayna's loss to Kirk!
JB

 

[DonIago]

But should Kirk need that kind of intervention to get over the loss of a woman he knew for...what, a week, tops (seriously, I don't recall the timespan of the episode)? Is this really any worse than many other situations we see him deal with in TOS?

 

[plynch]

The heart is unpredictable. He was really tired. Been out on mission for years at that point. He's human.

 

[johnnybear]

He only works in outer space!
JB

 

[DonIago]

You think the journey was starting to feel episodic? (ducks)

 

[ZapBrannigan]

In the episode's intended light, and the way I watch it, Kirk is the romantic hero, stopping on his dramatic voyage, and he's "right" in his feelings for this compelling woman. "Requiem" is like a little story within a long Greek epic. Star Trek as The Odyssey.

If you disallow the romantic filter and impose an unintended gritty realism, it doesn't work. Kirk can then be seen as irresponsible and impetuous, to seemingly put the ship's epidemic second and fall in love so fast. And that's wrong. The show is meant as a compressed vignette of falling in love, a stage for emotions to be acted out in a brief play.

Star Trek (TOS) is not gritty realism. It's romantic art.