HDTV ain't so good!!!

[Cheapjack]

I saw that HDTV TV going the other day in a shop window.

I wasn't impressed. You can see the pixels. You can't with the super-processed ordinary TV you get today. It's blurry.
Considering that they've had about 25 years to get it right, it ain't so good.

I won't be buying it. I'm going to wait until super high def comes out!!

 

[Tomalak]

It was probably set up wrongly - and might not even have been showing HD material.

Personally, I've no intention of going HD unitl it becomes cheaper, and more programmes are actually transmitted in HD. But I'm told it is very impressive when everything is set up correctly.

 

[AviTrek]

I'll second the comment that the TV wasn't set up correctly. It amazes me that best buy/circuit city still try and sell HDTVs with a DVD source. Go to a smaller home theater/electronics store. You'll get more knowledgeable help, a better shopping experience, and they might still match the big box prices.

 

[Outpost4]

Well, HDTV works well by the 24th century. That must be the reason this thread is posted here in the TNG forum.

You will be waiting decades for a super high def system, Cheapjack. The TV stations in your town are each spending millions of dollars to upgrade their systems. They won't change to another system for quite a while. They simply can't afford it. Look at it this way, Cheapjack: the switch to color happened 40 years ago. This is the first major TV upgrade since then. While it probably won't be another 40 years until we see further advancements, my bet is that it will be 30.

I agree, you weren't looking at a true high def broadcast on a TV set up right. HDTV looks stunning.

 

[Good Will Riker]

I already own an HDTV set, but I bet you something will come along that will make me want to replace my current set 6-10 years down the road. That's the nature of technology. There is always something better around the horizon.

On a related note, it took me 7 years to amass my current DVD collection (111 DVD titles, but I've sold-off or gave away about 300 unwanted DVD titles in between that time...). I plan to upgrade to either HD-DVD or Bluray by 2009 and most likely purchase a combo player to take advantage of my HDTV set's capabilities, but I won't be going back to upgrade and repurchase what I already own on DVD (Unless the original picture source is pretty bad, as in the case of Rocky IV on DVD.). Whatever titles I endup collecting on either HD-DVD or Bluray, there is no way that collection is going to surpass the number of titles that I currently already own on DVD. Hopefully, the price of those HD-DVD and Bluray discs will come down in a few years' time, or else they better start offering things like an entire season of TNG on a single disc for HD-DVD and/or Bluray to be worth its weight in gold, because the overall quality of HD-DVD and Bluray (Including special features, etc.) is not the leap that it was from VHS to that of DVD.

 

[Corran Horn]

Distance plays a role too. You can't be a foot away from the screen and say "This don't look so good." Well no shit it doesn't look good. You're not supposed to be that close.

DiscoveryHD theater looks fantastic in our house via Comcast. We have a 46" Samsung LCD that we sit about 8-10' away from.

 

[Maverick]

Cheapjack said:
I saw that HDTV TV going the other day in a shop window.

I wasn't impressed. You can see the pixels. You can't with the super-processed ordinary TV you get today. It's blurry.
Considering that they've had about 25 years to get it right, it ain't so good.

I won't be buying it. I'm going to wait until super high def comes out!!

Everyone on TV looks ugly when you first get a HDTV, cause you can see TOO MUCH detail

 

[Michael Chris]

HDTV is just amazing with HD sources.

 

[Deleted 2]

Outpost4 said:
While it probably won't be another 40 years until we see further advancements, my bet is that it will be 30.

I'm betting on 3DV within ten years.

I'd be far more interested in HDTV if they sold hi-def CRT hdtvs at a fair price.

 

[AviTrek]

They do, you just don't see them advertised. If you go into a store you should be able to find HD-CRTs in the 30-40 inch range. Anything smaller and your eye can't see the difference between HD and SD and anything larger and its too heavy. Also, even before the days of HDTV CRTs never scaled well into the 50 inch range.

 

[tomalak301]

I don't really like this "war" of sorts with formats. While HD looks awesome, I have no intention of getting one because one, I can't afford it, and two, I don't need it. They can go ahead and make TNG for HD, but I still have the DVDs and I'm happy about that.

 

[Admiral Bear]

To be honest, how good would, for example TNG look in high def anyway?

Some of the source material is 20 year old video. I can't see how that source would stand up to being shown in HD. Wouldn't it be akin to watching SD on a mid-range HD specific LCD? ie it would look pretty bloody awful.

I think current definition DVDs are going to be as good as it gets quality wise for an awful lot of releases which will no doubt be re-released on Blu-Ray or HD-DVD in the future to further milk consumers.

Many people who've upgraded will realise they've all been done over when their shiny new Blu-Ray releases of 30 year old films look a shambles.

 

[Outpost4]

Zero Hour said:

Outpost4 said:
While it probably won't be another 40 years until we see further advancements, my bet is that it will be 30.

I'm betting on 3DV within ten years.

You're simply dreaming. Imagine you are a local TV station. To just through-cast HDTV and not generate a single HDTV picture on site will cost you $2-4,000,000 for the new transmitter, downlink, etc. For that investment you won't sell a single additional advertisement. You've got to just belly up and make it if you want to keep your license because the FCC is chomping at the bit to take away the VHF frequency you broadcast on. You want to generate local HDTV programs like the news? Double or triple the investment. It is an incredible capital expense for a TV station to make. You're talking about needing to sell thousands and thousands of more ads to pay for the upgrade, over and above the ads you're now selling to cover your normal operating expenses. Whether a small station in a secondary or tertiary market can even afford the switch is a good question. My local Fox affiliate has essentially punted. They bought hand-me-down SDTV equipment and still can't broadcast in HDTV. They won't be able to for years, not until they can find a second hand HDTV set-up for cheap. My bet is I won't see Fox in HDTV until 2015.

What might be technologically possible, and there is nothing out there that will do what you want right now, it won't be financially possible. You will put way too many TV stations out of business.

I'd be far more interested in HDTV if they sold hi-def CRT hdtvs at a fair price.

As a guy who watches HDTV on a CRT, it is so yesterday's technology. Besides the weight and size - my 38" set weighs 275 lbs. and is next to impossible to lift by anybody but RAMA - flat screens keep dropping precipitously in price. By the time you could get a budget priced CRT to market, a flat screen would be cheaper to make.

 

[Corran Horn]

Outpost4 said:

As a guy who watches HDTV on a CRT, it is so yesterday's technology. Besides the weight and size - my 38" set weighs 275 lbs. and is next to impossible to lift by anybody but RAMA - flat screens keep dropping precipitously in price. By the time you could get a budget priced CRT to market, a flat screen would be cheaper to make.

I agree. I replaced my 32" Sony CRT with the 46" Samsung. The Sony cost me about $1K a couple years ago and I was lucky to get $250 for it. It also weighed about 200lbs.

 

[gastrof]

AviTrek said:
....It amazes me that best buy/circuit city still try and sell HDTVs with a DVD source....

It can be worse.

I was in a store today that had a DVD feeding into their HD sets, and it turned out the DVD had been made by the VOOM satellite people...

You know...the satellite service that went out of business EONS ago?

I like the way the store is keeping up to date.

On the other hand, I got a digital TV (displays Standard Def but has digital and analog tuners) for $150...brand spankin' new.

Hey, it'll get digital channels, and that's the key thing. I don't need a "just like you're there" picture.

It's TV.

I know I'm not there.

 

[gastrof]

Admiral Bear said:
To be honest, how good would, for example TNG look in high def anyway?

Some of the source material is 20 year old video. I can't see how that source would stand up to being shown in HD...

You mean the way TOS, even older, is making it into HD by way of the latest "remastered version"?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

By definition, TNG can't be shown in HD, since the effects were done on videotape but the live-action was done on film.

Long story short: All the effects for TNG would have to be completely redone, from scratch, if they wanted to show it in HD. Somehow I don't see TPTB putting forth that much effort.

DS9 and Voyager would also be impossible to show in HD, for the same reasons.

Only Enterprise (and TOS remastered) is airable in HD.

 

[gastrof]

Babaganoosh said:
By definition, TNG can't be shown in HD, since the effects were done on videotape but the live-action was done on film...

The same could be said of TOS, since its special effects didn't stand up to HD scrutiny...but they've been redone.

By the way...

ENTERPRISE had at least its last season done on video rather than film...but it was done in High Def.

 

[gastrof]

Outpost4 said:
...You will be waiting decades for a super high def system, Cheapjack. The TV stations in your town are each spending millions of dollars to upgrade their systems. They won't change to another system for quite a while. They simply can't afford it. Look at it this way, Cheapjack: the switch to color happened 40 years ago. This is the first major TV upgrade since then. While it probably won't be another 40 years until we see further advancements, my bet is that it will be 30...

We're sort of talking apples and oranges here.

When color TV began (in the U.S., at least), it was done in such a way that the old black and white TVs would still get a monochrome version of the new color broadcasts, and the new color sets could still make use of any broadcasts still done in black and white.

This time, it's very different.

The two systems, analog and digital, aren't able to "play nice" with each other.

The older analog sets can't make any use of the new digital broadcasts, and digital-only tuners can't make any use of broadcasts done in analog...

And the government (U.S.) is mandating that the analog stations go off the air in about a year and a half.

This will leave older TVs completely useless.

The color changeover left the older sets still working and able to display the new broadcasts (tho' not in color).

The digital changeover will leave a lot of equipment wasted and many people in need of spending more money just to keep getting television.

I seriously doubt they'll dare do anything like this again within a century. Forget about 30 years.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

gastrof said:And the government (U.S.) is mandating that the analog stations go off the air in about a year and a half.

This will leave older TVs completely useless.

Not if they're using cable or satellite. Only over-the-air transmission, i.e. rabbit ears, will be affected. If you have DirecTV, or cable TV, you will never know that anything happened.

gastrof said:

Babaganoosh said:
By definition, TNG can't be shown in HD, since the effects were done on videotape but the live-action was done on film...

The same could be said of TOS, since its special effects didn't stand up to HD scrutiny...

They're only doing TOS over again because it *looks bad* in HD. But in TNG, DS9 and VOY's case, it would be, quite literally, impossible to show them in HD.

but they've been redone.

Would you expect Paramount or whoever is responsible for this, to put forth all the effort for the *other* shows that they're doing now for TOS? It would require a complete re-do of all the special effects for every Trek show ever made (except for Enterprise). That's a lot of work. A LOT. We're talking HUNDREDS of episodes here. Do they really care that much?

Hell, at the current rate of progress, they're years away from finishing the remastering of TOS - and that's just one series. Throw three MORE shows into the mix...have you any idea how long THAT would take? We'd all be grandparents before they finished that sumbitch.