They slowed the trains down on purpose
For authenticity haha
Spared no expense.
For authenticity haha
Spared no expense.
HBO's "Westworld", starring Anthony Hopkins/produced by J.J. Abrams
- Thread starter Ensign_Redshirt
- Start date
My wife is thinking of starting to watch the show, if she does and gets to that point I'll try and take a shot.
Sorry, I think it was in4 or 5 but can't recall now.
I suppose that's possible although I didn't think it was the case at the time.
They slowed the trains down on purpose
For authenticity haha
Spared no expense.
Maybe they went with Colm Meaney's design at the start of Hell on Wheel when he got paid for every mile of track laid down - zigzagging the entire line to make the trip longer
They slowed the trains down on purpose
For authenticity haha
Spared no expense.
The trains could go in circles so there is no problem with the small radius.
When I was a kid I had a toy train, which could go in circles for hours theoretically. Practically it fell every 20 seconds.
Doing ye olde rewatch and I'm wondering if this could be what's happening with Bernard:
In Ep. 4: Dissonance Theory, we see Bernard with Dolores in the remote lab and she mentions for the first time that she thinks there may be something wrong with the world. I think this may be what leads to the catastrophic breakdown of 30 years ago (because I still think that part is happening 30 years ago) and why now the first thing they ask any malfunctioning host is, "Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?" That's the main thing they have to watch out for.
If Bernard was an android, even 30 years ago, probably made by Arnold - the plans we see in Trompe L'oeil are of Dolores and Bernard, suggesting he is at least as old as she is. Back then I suspect he knew he was an android, and even worked on the other androids. Possibly he was the first to achieve sentience - and Arnold created the maze as the final test for any android to be able to prove/achieve sentience. Reach the middle and you may be able to be free - i.e. know the true nature of your reality. Bernard has already successfully done this. When Arnold "commits suicide" (was probably really killed by Ford), Ford took Bernard's sentience from him. And when Bernard gets it back, he is going to be pissed.
In Ep. 4: Dissonance Theory, we see Bernard with Dolores in the remote lab and she mentions for the first time that she thinks there may be something wrong with the world. I think this may be what leads to the catastrophic breakdown of 30 years ago (because I still think that part is happening 30 years ago) and why now the first thing they ask any malfunctioning host is, "Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?" That's the main thing they have to watch out for.
If Bernard was an android, even 30 years ago, probably made by Arnold - the plans we see in Trompe L'oeil are of Dolores and Bernard, suggesting he is at least as old as she is. Back then I suspect he knew he was an android, and even worked on the other androids. Possibly he was the first to achieve sentience - and Arnold created the maze as the final test for any android to be able to prove/achieve sentience. Reach the middle and you may be able to be free - i.e. know the true nature of your reality. Bernard has already successfully done this. When Arnold "commits suicide" (was probably really killed by Ford), Ford took Bernard's sentience from him. And when Bernard gets it back, he is going to be pissed.
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What if Arnold's "suicide" was Ford taking over Bernard and doing the same thing he did in the last episode? Assuming Bernard is a host of Arnold. That would be a sly way for Ford to claim he committed suicide, no?
Someone at Delos would know who Arnold was though. Even with his contributions being downplayed and PR turning Ford into the mastermind of the park I don't see how a robot clone of Arnold could operate as the head of behaviour answering directly to the corporate representative without someone noticing.
Yeah, but then there wouldn't be any reason at all to obfuscate what Arnold looked like. I seem to recall there even being several mentions that no one knew what he looked like, too. Which is weird, admittedly, but it is something the show addressed.
The only reason to hide his identity is if it's significant to information we already know... and Bernard is the best candidate for that.
I don't recall there being statements that no one ever knew what Arnold looked like. I know that current employees have said they didn't know about Arnold, which makes sense since he died three decades previously and company made Ford the genius inventor, but there is no reason to think he was the future version of Banksy, hiding his identity while he did his work in secret. There would have been other employees working with / for him as well as the corporation higher ups. The Man in Black seems to have known him - or at least quite a bit about him.
Strikes me more as a red herring.
Now that I'm finally caught up on this amazing show, I can enter this thread risk free. Been reading through the various theories and thoughts, and there's a lot of interesting ideas in here. I too wondered if the stuff with William and Dolores was set in an older period of time. William seems like a model for the Teddy character, in some respects, and we know "something" happened thirty years ago. I look forward to seeing how some of these plot lines tie together.
Elsie is probably my favorite character. Please don't be dead, Elsie! Absolutely loving Hopkins as Ford. The man is an amazing actor, and he brings such power to the role, without hamming it up.
Of course, the show has done a fantastic job of creating shadows and questions. When are these events happening relative to one another? Who is a host, who isn't? If someone is a host in one scene, are they still a host in another? Bernard, for example. If the Dolores plotline is actually a flashback, do we assume that Bernard is the same Bernard we're seeing in the "present day" sections? Could host-Bernard have replaced the original? There's a lot to unpack with this reveal, not the least of which is that we cannot trust the very things we've been shown. The narrator is unreliable, as it were. It's a clever, but potentially dangerous gamble for the writers. Hopefully they have an ending for the season that makes it all worth while.
Elsie is probably my favorite character. Please don't be dead, Elsie! Absolutely loving Hopkins as Ford. The man is an amazing actor, and he brings such power to the role, without hamming it up.
Of course, the show has done a fantastic job of creating shadows and questions. When are these events happening relative to one another? Who is a host, who isn't? If someone is a host in one scene, are they still a host in another? Bernard, for example. If the Dolores plotline is actually a flashback, do we assume that Bernard is the same Bernard we're seeing in the "present day" sections? Could host-Bernard have replaced the original? There's a lot to unpack with this reveal, not the least of which is that we cannot trust the very things we've been shown. The narrator is unreliable, as it were. It's a clever, but potentially dangerous gamble for the writers. Hopefully they have an ending for the season that makes it all worth while.
After she is told to "Remember" we see a picture of William followed by William himself. Interesting. And the voice did sound kind of like Bernard.
Anyone else wonder if Logan's episode two description of Westworld as "It's not just tits and guns" is a reference to Ian McShane's description of Game of Thrones as "Tits and dragons" ?
When we see Theresa and Bernard in the same episode you can see the window above briefly with a landscape below it - not the bit I was referencing earlier but I hadn't noticed it before.
Further edit : the voice telling Delores to "kill him" Doesn't sound like Bernard
Edit: Man in Black says once he reaches the centre of the maze he's never coming back. An old man searching for immortality in the singularity.
Episode 3, a little on the nose isn't it, giving her Alice in Wonderland? Might as well give her I, Robot.
I wonder what the other books they read together were...
You're right, it's Bernard's voice. At least it is in episode 3 when she remembers Ed Harris.
Edit continued : I don't see much mention of Wyatt in the fan theories, however his story of hearing the voice of God and the inability of guns to harm his followers makes me think he's connected to Arnold fairly closely.
When we see Theresa and Bernard in the same episode you can see the window above briefly with a landscape below it - not the bit I was referencing earlier but I hadn't noticed it before.
Further edit : the voice telling Delores to "kill him" Doesn't sound like Bernard
Edit: Man in Black says once he reaches the centre of the maze he's never coming back. An old man searching for immortality in the singularity.
Episode 3, a little on the nose isn't it, giving her Alice in Wonderland? Might as well give her I, Robot.
I wonder what the other books they read together were...
You're right, it's Bernard's voice. At least it is in episode 3 when she remembers Ed Harris.
Edit continued : I don't see much mention of Wyatt in the fan theories, however his story of hearing the voice of God and the inability of guns to harm his followers makes me think he's connected to Arnold fairly closely.
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Just a fun fact, since we're dealing with a western style show... Robert Ford is the man that killed western outlaw and gunslinger Jesse James.
Absolutely. Can't be a coincidence.
He's known as the coward for shooting James in the back and betraying him for fame and fortne, much like Hopkins character became rich and famous with Arnold's death.
Henry Ford also pioneered the moving assembly line, something we've seen multiple times in this series with the construction of the bots. Probably also a purposeful reference.
Really going to need screen caps of this or something. Because they're clearly in a facility overlooking the park. We see that, quite blatantly, time and time again. We also see them outside getting a tan, drinking cocktails, and just enjoying the open air. So unless you guys are trying to say that they're taking a shuttle to and from the park on a regular basis, there's just no way that they're in orbit or anything like that.
We've also clearly seen a control room that has a small model/hologram/Hunger Games style display in the middle, too, and that's the only thing I can think of that's throwing you guys off in that regard.
We know next to nothing about Wyatt, so it's hard to have any meaningful speculation about him.
That's a guest facility, a five star resort that the narrative guy gets drunk at and hits on what he thinks is a guest and then fi do out is a board member. The work facility is underground and they take elevators "up" to the park from. They don't take a shuttle to and from the park - they specifically discuss rotating home from it. They live in the facility.
Episode three, on the hunt for the woodcutter, the QA guy jokes that the woodcutter went moon mad....
Edit: Episode 3 and 4 both Bernard and Delores describe the pain of their dead family members as all they have left of them. When Bernard asks Delores if they wrote that she says in part, she adaptated it from a scripted reply. Not really proof towards any theory, other than that Bernard's pain is scripted, not uploaded from Arnold's personal loss.
There's a lot of evidence that Bernard is Arnold it just seems too obvious to me. Thats why I hope it's a red herring.
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I'm aware of that. And that's my point. There's never any reason for them to have a window gazing down at the park from orbit. So I have no idea how you keep seeing such things; they're either at the "resort" area overlooking the park, or they're down somewhere inside the plateau underneath the resort. At no point whatsoever are they in orbit, nor has there even been an inkling of a glimmer of a hope of them shuttling to and from orbit in order for them to be able to gaze down at it from orbit.
And "moon mad" is just an archaic synonym for "lunatic." Sure, there could be meaning there and -- as I said before -- my initial instinct about the show was that it was off-world, but there hasn't actually been any real evidence of this.
And again, the level of technology that would be required to create an artificial environment that detailed and that expansive is waaaaay more advanced than anything else we've seen in the show. The hosts included.
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Ah, there's the disconnect: I don't believe the window is looking down on the park, I believe it is looking down on Earth from the moon / asteroid in lagrange point they are on.
I freely admit I could be completely wrong, it's just an idea. I'm sure I saw the window showing a moving terrain below it. I'm rewatching the series with my wife right now, when/if we get to that point I'll give the episode number and time
.Or maybe I see I was viewing it wrong the whole time. Could very well be.
Edit: Episode 4 around 52, 53 minutes in QA woman employee monitoring the saloon shootout heist - the monitor shows Westworld as a globe, continents matching the fake continents on the Delos logo.
Edit: episode five Hopkins says Arnold is locked away in Doreles' mind, perfectly preserved. She had contact with him the day he died. Suggesting Arnold's consciousness was uploaded into her instead of into a network when he died? Or both her and the other androids when he died?
One more edit: Since we know Bernard and Delores are both unreliable narrators, and we've had scenes from both of them where we saw an altered version of reality since they can't see things that can hurt them, we can't actually know that the meetings between Bernard and Delores are between Bernard and Delores. I'm wondering if the "Bernard" in those scenes isn't Bernard at all, but someone (Arnold, Ford) appearing to Delores as Bernard
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