HBO's "Westworld", starring Anthony Hopkins/produced by J.J. Abrams

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Ensign_Redshirt, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Quoter of Quotes Premium Member

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    If it wasn't confusing, it wouldn't be Westworld.... :lol:

    Seeing the free humans trying to rescue an outlier made me wonder if they're all outliers. However, Frankie was around before Charlotte took over the world - how did she not get taken over? Who was the first "free human" - I thought Frankie at first, but she was just a kid when it went wrong. Maybe her mom?

    I love how things have flipped from season 1: "have you ever questioned your reality?"; Teddy being the one telling Christina/Delores the truth; etc.

    Besides Bernard, Stubbs, and possibly the Host MIB, I also wonder if there are other hosts who think things aren't right.

    Charlotte's complaints to Host MIB were wonderfully theological. :hugegrin:
     
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  2. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So who brought back Donut Lord? Did Delores do so without knowing it?
     
  3. wayoung

    wayoung Commodore Commodore

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    The first outlier was Caleb, that's why Halores was so shocked at his ability to resist her. Seems to be somewhat genetic.

    Who does everyone think RoboMIB's Human predecessor was? I don't think it's OG William.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
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  4. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    * Sigh *

    Everything that I was afraid of vis a vis Christina after reading recaps of last week's episode turned out to be true as of this week's episode, and so I'm left feeling disappointed and frustrated.

    There was no reason to feed us lines about Christina being human, and no reason to drag out revealing the 'truth' about her character through half the season.

    The fact that the Outlier who was mentioned last week turned out to be some rando also left me disappointed.

    The show is going to have to do some heavy damage control in the next few episodes and narratively justify Evan and the Nolans lying about the nature of Christina's character, or else Season 4 won't feel satisfying for me.

    On the positive side, I did find Host!William's crisis of existentialism and his interaction with the human version of himself to be enjoyable, and Charlores Hale going stir-crazy with boredom and as a result of the slow but steady breaking down of her 'perfect world' adds some intriguing layers to her character.
     
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  5. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    They didn't lie, they were just telling the truth from a certain point of view.
     
  6. wayoung

    wayoung Commodore Commodore

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    OMG the producers of a longform art piece LIED about where it was going to preserve the audiences emotional reactions (and financial viability of the product) when the reveal was finally made?! Shocked, I'm shocked I tells you!!!! No one could ever have predicted this!
     
  7. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No.

    Christina isn't a human; telling us that she was is a flat-out lie.

    Lying to your audience is a sign of weak storytelling, and the Nolans have heretofore demonstrated that they're not weak storytellers.
     
  8. wayoung

    wayoung Commodore Commodore

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    Or it's a sign that in today's world of hyper attentive fans obsessing over every syllable uttered by writers and every frame of a show presented on TV being analyzed to death on message forums creative people are forced between a rock and a hard place:. Confirming fan theories worked out by the obsessive which will leak to the general audience weeks (months, years) ahead of the planned reveal, spoiling the journey, or lying which will keep the statements within the realm of the obsessives, most of which will know they're lying, and not filter out and ruin the journey for the general audience.

    Even without the issues of modern day telecoms, artists have lied as long as there has been art, often just for the glee of seeing the results of it.

    If producers lying bothers you, stop reading interviews with them and enjoy the shows as they air like 95% of the audience.

    Or stop watching and boycott them. They won't care either way.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
  9. wayoung

    wayoung Commodore Commodore

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    In related news, YouTube seems to have rejected the recent copyright claim by HBO over this 9 second clip from season 2 that I uploaded 4 years ago as a joke about me playing video games instead of going to bed.

    (My name is William)

     
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  10. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    You all can see the space needle too right? Just checking.

    INVISIBLE SPACE NEEDLE OF DEATH!

    I’m wondering now how this Teddy joined the real world. Did Bernard do it or did he choose to earlier?

    Did you really want Christina not to be a robot? And instead to be a human who coincidentally looked exactly like Dolores for no in world reason and for no other real world reason than reusing the actress?

    Would that not totally undercut the suspension of disbelief and immersion?

    Star Trek only gets to do that because it’s sci-fi on a low-medium level of seriousness. Higher seriousness level sci-fi needs actual story reasons to reuse actors.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2022
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  11. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, because that's the expectation Evan and the Nolans cultivated with their comments.

    No.
     
  12. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    Then it seems like you'd rather Westworld be pulpy light scifi, and we're watching two completely different shows.

    If characters look exactly the same for no reason in the story, the story has completely abandoned all seriousness. And Westworld isn't fun enough not to have seriousness and still to be watchable.
     
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  13. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    That kind of thing breaks the 4th wall, plain and simple.

    Breaking the 4th wall is okay for comedy shows, and okay in small doses in more pulpy shows like Star Trek. But more serious scifi dramas need to keep the 4th wall completely intact.
     
  14. wayoung

    wayoung Commodore Commodore

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    There are serious shows that have successfully recast major actors into different roles (see Dillahunt in Deadwood) but everything about him was radically changed to the point he was practically unrecognizable, which is the opposite of what happened here. Every scene with Christina was purposely evocative of her past as Dolores, from her very introduction, waking up the same as Dolores did. Painting like Dolores, writing stories similar to Dolores' loops, using similar phrasing as Dolores' programmed speech, Teddy...

    Vs, again, Dillahunt, who as Wollcott was purposely presented as far from Jack McCall in camera framing, wardrobe, speech, and general appearance as possible without surgery.
     
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  15. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Digificwriter has very serious issues about trusting "reliable source". He keeps citing them as absolute unbreakable fact, and always has his heart broken when it turns out to be misdirection/deception/misinformation. Keeps happening over and over.
     
  16. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Real world things happen, and sometimes you need to recast to keep your story alive. That's different from reusing actors for no reason at all though.
     
  17. wayoung

    wayoung Commodore Commodore

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    They re-used Dillahunt because they liked him, no other reason. I was using him as an example of successfully re-using the same actor in a serious show without breaking the fourth wall, and illustrating the difference between his being cast in two seperate roles with the show going to lengths to make him unrecognizable for each part, and Westworld, where the show went to lengths to show the similarity between each part
     
  18. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    '
    Oh ok, so I missed your point. My bad.
     
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  19. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I wanted Christina to be a human character who just happened to look like Dolores only because that's the expectation that Evan and the Nolans cultivated.

    It's not unreasonable for me to not be okay with the three of them lying about the character, nor should I have been expected to automatically assume that their insistence that Christina was a human was in fact a lie.
     
  20. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is Westworld after all, so there can be other twists and U-Turns that change her nature somehow. Or they can go and say something like "oh we meant human-like in that she is in the same prison as the humans"

    But really this is just another example of how modern fandom basically ruins the experience of just letting the show unfold as the writers intended. The endless questions and interviews make them have to choose between preserving their story's secrets or lying to people.
     
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