HBO/Showtime version of Star Trek

[xortex]

I hate people stories. 2001 had no aliens in it. If there has to be civilizations, let them all be more or less advanced Humans once again with explaination. Enterprise did alot of stories surprisingly without alien bumpy heads. Rod Serling said Trek should stick more to the realistic and BELIEVABLE science. There's only so many convolutions you can inflict on the audience before they just see alot of greedy actors cashing checks and lose their suspension of disbelief. No more prosthetics, ever.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Someone place the Monoliths in those locations. I don't think it was "advanced humans. Nice prosthetic work on the apes.

 

[xortex]

Not neccesarily someone. Could be something.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Meaning what? Non sentient? Non-living?

or to Quote Leonard McCoy " Why is any object we don't understand always called a 'thing'?"

 

[xortex]

Either, living machines, or gods like Prometheus. I am not going to see that movie. It's obvious how they steal establishing shots off of 2001 like the back shot of the astronouts looking on. What a rip off. That's indication no 1 that's it's just gonna be a shallow staight up horror shoot 'em up flick.

 

[Nerys Myk]

"Gods" are aliens. They and "living machines" qualify as someones in my book.

Don't know much about Prometheus yet. Still on my wait and see list.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

All stories are people stories.

 

[xortex]

2001 was not about the people and it was especially not about aliens who looked like people. It was about an intangeble mystery - an anomaly. Trek often did this but their formula was the particle of the week or another vortex or bottle show disease but all touchy feely emo - even with a detached Captain. Aliens were over used and wore out and not different enough and treated different enough which is why there has to be reason why they're all just all Humans. What's real has to be seperated from what is alien.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

2001 would have been meaningless if there had been no people (or monkeys evolving into people) in the story. There can be no "mystery" if there is no one around to be mystified.

 

[xortex]

There is the audience who should be more objectively aware what is going on more than any of the characters. Story concept is more important than characters always.In TNG it always wasn't and too many aliens wore out they're welcome.

 

[Nerys Myk]

2001 was not about the people and it was especially not about aliens who looked like people. It was about an intangeble mystery - an anomaly. Trek often did this but their formula was the particle of the week or another vortex or bottle show disease but all touchy feely emo - even with a detached Captain. Aliens were over used and wore out and not different enough and treated different enough which is why there has to be reason why they're all just all Humans. What's real has to be seperated from what is alien.

Shouldn't the aliens be real or at least feel that way?

The reason they were "human" is budgetary and relatability. Star Trek is a show about humanity. Every alien is human, even ones like the horta. No matter how "alien" they may be the characters and the audience always see their humanity.

 

[xortex]

Which is why I say to make them all another branch of Humanity.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Which is why I say to make them all another branch of Humanity.

Nah. That would totally miss the point.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Which is why I say to make them all another branch of Humanity.

So you think sci fi should be only about literal people and not metaphorical ones? Why bother with sci fi at all, then?

 

[xortex]

An alien is a metaphorical person? I don't think the sudience sees it that way. Else why should they bother with them if they are not real. Sci-fi is about science. The science of aliens used in Trek is over streched and broken.

 

[Nerys Myk]

An alien is a metaphorical person? I don't think the sudience sees it that way. Else why should they bother with them if they are not real. Sci-fi is about science. The science of aliens used in Trek is over streched and broken.

Yes quite often ( and especially in Star Trek) the aliens are metaphors for humans and the stories are metaphor/allegories for past and present events humanity is involved in. Yeah there might a few folks in the audience for whom the metaphors and allegories whoosh over their heads, but for the most part people get them.

No Science Fiction is not just about science. If can be about people and the impact science has on people and culture. There can even be SF without much science but by virtue of its setting its Science Fiction.

What is the "science of aliens"? The alien aspect can be physical, cultural or biological. How much "science" involved is up to the author.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

An alien is a metaphorical person? I don't think the sudience sees it that way. Else why should they bother with them if they are not real. Sci-fi is about science. The science of aliens used in Trek is over streched and broken.

I see you've missed a huge part of science fiction. If the aliens were not metaphorical people in some way, the audience would not be able to relate to them. Even a Horta is relatable because it's trying to protect its offspring. King Kong just wanted love. Frankenstein just wanted acceptance. Jaws just wants lunch. I could go on and on.

And if people won't watch a show because the characters are not "real," they are highly unlikely to be watching sci fi at all. Or fiction for that matter. Fiction is not "real" either.

 

[xortex]

BELIEVABILITY has worn itself out on Trek because of aliens. They are treated too commonplace and accepted too readily as well as believed of every word that they say. I believe Spock was only aboard because they were going where no man had gone before and Starfleet needed an alien's perspective. What if they found out the Vulcans were some super advanced higher meta-life form come to test us? They could have been Talosians. That would throw a wrench in the Federation's abilty to understand the truth about the universe and aliens as well as Mr. Spock who might have been part of the investigation. He might have known things about aliens that he wasn't revealing. As Q said, the jury might still be out on that, though any future developments aside, Spock to me was still Questor - an alien without a home, per say, but still an alien. Understanding aliens is the focus of Trek but it need not contain so many humanoids. Spock should have been a rarity on a Starship and only a few races should have been seen or heard like the Vulcan/Romulans, Andorians, Klingons.
Spock could have obviscating the truth about his true nature and that of the aliens. That would and should be intolerable to the Federation. TOS to me was a one offer - an extended rescue mission that turned into a fantastic odessy all pretenses of it's five year mission aside. The fact that Spock prooved to be trustworthy doesn't mean or change anything. He's still an alien, if only half and it was probably because he was half that they put him in there. They may not have put a full Vulcan in. Too risky in every way that's meaningful.

 

[Dukhat]

BELIEVABILITY has worn itself out on Trek because of aliens. They are treated too commonplace and accepted too readily as well as believed of every word that they say. I believe Spock was only aboard because they were going where no man had gone before and Starfleet needed an alien's perspective. What if they found out the Vulcans were some super advanced higher meta-life form come to test us? They could have been Talosians. That would throw a wrench in the Federation's abilty to understand the truth about the universe and aliens as well as Mr. Spock who might have been part of the investigation. He might have known things about aliens that he wasn't revealing. As Q said, the jury might still be out on that, though any future developments aside, Spock to me was still Questor - an alien without a home, per say, but still an alien. Understanding aliens is the focus of Trek but it need not contain so many humanoids. Spock should have been a rarity on a Starship and only a few races should have been seen or heard like the Vulcan/Romulans, Andorians, Klingons.
Spock could have obviscating the truth about his true nature and that of the aliens. That would and should be intolerable to the Federation. TOS to me was a one offer - an extended rescue mission that turned into a fantastic odessy all pretenses of it's five year mission aside. The fact that Spock prooved to be trustworthy doesn't mean or change anything. He's still an alien, if only half and it was probably because he was half that they put him in there. They may not have put a full Vulcan in. Too risky in every way that's meaningful.

Believability? What on earth are you talking about? Are you talking about Star Trek, or some other show that only you've seen that happens to have a character called Spock in it? Because nothing that you've said is in any way relevant to the Spock in Star Trek.

As has been said several times already, aliens like Spock, the Klingons, the Romulans, Bajorans, etc. are all metaphors for real humans, cultures, and religions. They are not truly aliens because true aliens would most likely not even be humanoid or have the same values, mores, etc. as homo sapiens, or seamlessly be able to converse in English. Star Trek has rarely ever tried to establish what true alien races would act like.

 

[Nerys Myk]

BELIEVABILITY has worn itself out on Trek because of aliens. They are treated too commonplace and accepted too readily as well as believed of every word that they say. I believe Spock was only aboard because they were going where no man had gone before and Starfleet needed an alien's perspective. What if they found out the Vulcans were some super advanced higher meta-life form come to test us? They could have been Talosians. That would throw a wrench in the Federation's abilty to understand the truth about the universe and aliens as well as Mr. Spock who might have been part of the investigation. He might have known things about aliens that he wasn't revealing. As Q said, the jury might still be out on that, though any future developments aside, Spock to me was still Questor - an alien without a home, per say, but still an alien. Understanding aliens is the focus of Trek but it need not contain so many humanoids. Spock should have been a rarity on a Starship and only a few races should have been seen or heard like the Vulcan/Romulans, Andorians, Klingons.
Spock could have obviscating the truth about his true nature and that of the aliens. That would and should be intolerable to the Federation. TOS to me was a one offer - an extended rescue mission that turned into a fantastic odessy all pretenses of it's five year mission aside. The fact that Spock prooved to be trustworthy doesn't mean or change anything. He's still an alien, if only half and it was probably because he was half that they put him in there. They may not have put a full Vulcan in. Too risky in every way that's meaningful.

You've never actually watched Star Trek, have you?
Of course aliens are common place on Star Trek. The UFP is an organization made of "aliens" from various worlds. Spock is not an alien in the UFP any more than a guy from New York is an alien in the USA. The only true aliens are the ones the UFP has yet to encounter.

Spock's role is not that of guide or judge but that of commentator. He gets to say stuff about humanity that humans can't.