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HBO/Showtime version of Star Trek

He named who he visualized and heard in his head, or "Who I Would Cast In The Principal Roles", on his annotations page.
I pretty much thought that was the case. But I have no idea why this would be considered a plus for a novel. I don't care one way or the other what process a writer takes, all I care about is the end result. For a writer to visualize an actor in order to create a character strikes me as a bit cheesy and not any more likely to result in a good character description than if, say, a writer uses someone they know as a template or a combination of people.
 
I think HBO would be a bit over the top for the ST franchise. FX might be a better compromise for those who want to keep it toned done but a little less sweet and innocent.
 
It's not TV. It's HBO.(TM) :rommie:

Movie stars are starting to do more TV, which is cool. Dustin Hoffman on Luck, Jessica Lange on American Horror Story. No wonder, as movies continue to spiral down into adolescent pap and all the good stories are being told on cable. And let's face it, as stars age, they find their movie career drying up.

But doing voices for a cartoon isn't exactly the same as joining a prestige series on HBO.
 
Look, I love the Kirk version of Star Trek, but what you're asking is that writers of the caliber that created the Sopranos, Games of Thrones, Deadwood, Carnivale and Band of Brothers among others be made to swallow wholesale many of the ludicrous impossibilities imposed on the show by Gene Roddenberry as a necessary compromise to help get his program on the air. Impossibilities that, when we think about them, buckle and break apart the very nature of the show...

If HBO/Showtime writers were tasked with rethinking Star Trek, many of its distinctive aspects would have to be completely re-imagined or jettisoned for a modern audience. What would result would be unrecognizable from what we know as Star Trek...

The very first aspect that would have to be changed dramatically would be all of the alien species. Say goodbye to the Vulcans, the Klingons and the Romulans (and especially ALL of the bumpy foreheaded freaks!). Are we actually to believe that in faraway galaxies, in completely alien environments, their dominant lifeforms would also evolve as they did on this planet, resulting in close variations of Homo Sapiens?
Logically you would actually have alien species akin to the Hortas and even the single-celled organisms from OPERATION ANNIHILATE, long before we would ever encounter another creature with two arms-two legs.
But If ever we must have more humanoid-looking aliens, wouldn't they be more likely to look like the 'prawns' from DISTRICT 9, or the Alien from the same-named film series?

Second of all, what kind of insane government (in this case, Starfleet) would send ONLY 400 people inside of ONE ship out in deep space, alone and without backup, for 5 years? The U.S. doesn't even send less than 100,000 men in another COUNTRY in its last few wars...Starfleet asks these refugees from an insane asylum to go out in totally unknown and uncharted space, with no backup and months perhaps before help can arrive, risking probable death...
Someone who would take more than 5 seconds to analyze the series would probably have a GROUP of starships in formation, well-armed with a reasonable amount of military specialists to protect the foolhardy scientists (similar to the Galactica, perhaps?)...

Third: just how many Class-M planets ARE there in deep space? Likely almost nil, necessitating 99% of away teams to wear heavy protective suits, as in The THOLIAN WEB, minus the shiny aluminum...
The good thing is with a HBO ST, first contact encounters would stop being as commonplace as they became, and go back to the raw sweaty tension of episodes like The CORBOMITE MANEUVER, but cranked all the way up (think Dallas, Kane and Lambert floating inside the derelict spaceship in Ridley Scott's ALIEN movie).

Fourth: we'd probably never get that far from the Milky Way galaxy, as each new system with its bizarre atmospheric conditions, hostile landscape and unexpected native lifeforms would probably tax the resources of each ship. McCoy is great, but NO WAY could that guy so easily figure out how to keep alive most of his crew. Heck we still have new diseases on THIS planet almost every year (avian flu, flesh-eating disease, H1N1) that elude a planetfull of doctors and researchers...

I could go on...

For over 40 years Star Trek has been billed as a science-fiction show, when the real truth of the matter is that Star Trek is a space-fantasy show with some actual science-based aspects.

But asking a bunch of sharp-eyed award-winning writers to ignore all of its inherent logic-defying hocus pocus as if it is not really there, and to merely tack on some gritty soap opera would only result in a half-hearted retooling.

We were lucky for so long that Star Trek thrilled us the way it did. Like Aladdin's lamp, perhaps it should remain a work with its share of whimsy...
 
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That'd be fine by me.

Star Trek must evolve. Its storytelling capabilty has reached the limits of its known format, and it must evolve.
 
Look, I love the Kirk version of Star Trek, but what you're asking is that writers of the caliber that created the Sopranos, Games of Thrones, Deadwood, Carnivale and Band of Brothers among others be made to swallow wholesale many of the ludicrous impossibilities imposed on the show by Gene Roddenberry as a necessary compromise to help get his program on the air.
Humanoid aliens populating the galaxy is certainly a ludicrous idea. But vampires and zombies are also ludicrous ideas, and that doesn't stop The Walking Dead and True Blood from being hits on cable. I haven't watched Game of Thrones, but I'd imagine that has a few wizard-type characters who do ludicrous things as well. It certainly isn't an accurate depiction of history. Carnivale depicted many ludicrous things that were impossible in real life.

Sci fi and fantasy have certain conventions that audiences need to accept, to make the stories work. If they need to, they can envision the ludicrous elements as metaphors for the human condition or some such, and still imagine they are watching Great Art(TM). The zombies, vampires and humanoid aliens are all metaphorical humans, not meant to be seen literally, that sort of thing. That's a perfectly reasonable basis for a good story.

Second of all, what kind of insane government (in this case, Starfleet) would send ONLY 400 people inside of ONE ship out in deep space, alone and without backup, for 5 years?
That's the sort of objection that only people who join Star Trek bulletin boards care about. Obviously, the system works for Starfleet or they'd have been annihilated before the story begins. It's one of those initial conditions that audiences accept in order to enter a fantasy universe. If they want to stick to reality, they could watch a cop show (to the extent that cop shows even depict reality).

For over 40 years Star Trek has been billed as a science-fiction show, when the real truth of the matter is that Star Trek is a space-fantasy show with some actual science-based aspects.

The distinction between "science fiction" and "space fantasy" is another one of those things nobody outside places like this actually care about. What label you slap on Star Trek matters a lot less than whether it's a good story that appeals to the audience where it is being shown.
 
The aliens gotta go and the crew has to be alot smaller - like thirty five which means the ship should be alot smaller assuming it's not a cryogenic generational ship which might make more sense. I've always said there should be more advanced Humans out there waiting for us to join them. Like Balok and the first Federation, etc.. A parent race. They might also have special powers too, but anything alien has to be either really and have a good reason for them not being advanced Humans.
 
Humanoid aliens populating the galaxy is certainly a ludicrous idea. But vampires and zombies are also ludicrous ideas, and that doesn't stop The Walking Dead and True Blood from being hits on cable. I haven't watched Game of Thrones, but I'd imagine that has a few wizard-type characters who do ludicrous things as well. It certainly isn't an accurate depiction of history. Carnivale depicted many ludicrous things that were impossible in real life.

.
Game of Thrones isn't historical. It's fantasy that takes place in its own universe, unrelated to ours. Other than that, a very good point. The idea that a cable show has to be more grounded in "realism" than broadcast is pretty ludicrous.
 
Santa Kang and vorta: I've never said that I had trouble accepting Star Trek's conventions and traditions. The topic is what would be HBO's take on the subject if ever they would adapt it as a series.

HBO certainly would push for realism, going for an approach like Ridley Scott's ALIEN, John Carpenter's The THING.

I love Star Trek as it was, and fully support the many fanfilm groups who play within that universe. But don't expect HBO to accept all that we take for granted at face value. Another network would, not them...
 
Santa Kang and vorta: I've never said that I had trouble accepting Star Trek's conventions and traditions. The topic is what would be HBO's take on the subject if ever they would adapt it as a series.

HBO certainly would push for realism, going for an approach like Ridley Scott's ALIEN, John Carpenter's The THING.

I love Star Trek as it was, and fully support the many fanfilm groups who play within that universe. But don't expect HBO to accept all that we take for granted at face value. Another network would, not them...
To use Termis' example of Game of Thrones ( which I have seen), she is right in saying it has fantastical elements, specifically dragons. Its also on HBO. So I don't see HBO objecting to aliens and other "unrealistic" elements on a Trek show.
 
Santa Kang and vorta: I've never said that I had trouble accepting Star Trek's conventions and traditions. The topic is what would be HBO's take on the subject if ever they would adapt it as a series.

HBO certainly would push for realism, going for an approach like Ridley Scott's ALIEN, John Carpenter's The THING.

I love Star Trek as it was, and fully support the many fanfilm groups who play within that universe. But don't expect HBO to accept all that we take for granted at face value. Another network would, not them...
To use Termis' example of Game of Thrones ( which I have seen), she is right in saying it has fantastical elements, specifically dragons. Its also on HBO. So I don't see HBO objecting to aliens and other "unrealistic" elements on a Trek show.
Yea, you can only take "realism" just so far and have it still be Trek. Trek without a habitable Planet around every star and without Humanoid Aliens to use for Social Commentary and Metaphors isn't Trek.

Now sure, you could bring in some really "alien" aliens, but, if you can't communicate with them (It's completely unrealistic for you to be able to instantly communicate with a race you've only just met), or properly interact with them, there isn't much point in calling it Trek.
 
Humanoid aliens populating the galaxy is certainly a ludicrous idea. But vampires and zombies are also ludicrous ideas, and that doesn't stop The Walking Dead and True Blood from being hits on cable.
True

I haven't watched Game of Thrones, but I'd imagine that has a few wizard-type characters who do ludicrous things as well.
No wizards or sorcery of any kind as of the first season. Apart from the clash of families and Robert E. Howard-style tribes, dragon's eggs with an eventual reappearance of this mythic animal, the series plays its violence squarely in the realm of the possible. This isn't VAN HELSING at all!!

Carnivale depicted many ludicrous things that were impossible in real life.
Apart from a few instances, Carnivale had 2 characters with supra-normal powers: one who could give life to the dead but at the price of taking another's life. Clancy Brown's power is less easily-defined. however, the series never became like Buffy the Vampire Slayer with its many circus folk. Only the blind 'mentalist and 'management' had abilities beyond the norm, though not much so.
If you look at film & TV genres there are infinite possible approaches for each. for example, The Omen and Friday the 13th are both considered horror films, but you have to admit their specific approach to horror is light years apart. The original Fright Night and the tv mini-series Salem's Lot is vampire horror with only one played mainly for laughs...


For over 40 years Star Trek has been billed as a science-fiction show, when the real truth of the matter is that Star Trek is a space-fantasy show with some actual science-based aspects.
The distinction between "science fiction" and "space fantasy" is another one of those things nobody outside places like this actually care about. What label you slap on Star Trek matters a lot less than whether it's a good story that appeals to the audience where it is being shown.
I'll tell you who else cares about the difference between science-fiction and space-fantasy when making a show: The writer / writers who conceptualize it, the producer who budgets to have it made, the network who buys it (if the approach fits their overall image)

Look, Star Wars is space fantasy. Kubrick's 2001: a Space Odyssey is science-fiction. Star Trek fits in between these two genres....
 
Bixby said:
I haven't watched Game of Thrones, but I'd imagine that has a few wizard-type characters who do ludicrous things as well.
No wizards or sorcery of any kind as of the first season. Apart from the clash of families and Robert E. Howard-style tribes, dragon's eggs with an eventual reappearance of this mythic animal, the series plays its violence squarely in the realm of the possible. This isn't VAN HELSING at all!!
I seem to recall there was a touch of the mystic in Duur's "healing' of Drogo. Bran's dreams are also mystical in nature. Thn there are the wights ( a reanimated corpse), one of which tried to kill Jeor Mormont.
 
sindatur said:
Yea, you can only take "realism" just so far and have it still be Trek. Trek without a habitable Planet around every star and without Humanoid Aliens to use for Social Commentary and Metaphors isn't Trek.

Now sure, you could bring in some really "alien" aliens, but, if you can't communicate with them (It's completely unrealistic for you to be able to instantly communicate with a race you've only just met), or properly interact with them, there isn't much point in calling it Trek.

remember this phrase?:

''To explore STRANGE new worlds,
to seek out NEW LIFE and new civilizations...

I didn't know they meant at the time was not NEW life, but rather life that was sorta similar to ours apart from a few quirks or so...
In fact, I think it would be totally fascinating that a crew would meet a brand new apparently intelligent, non-humanoid alien species and be completely incapable of communicating with said species, exploring their frustration and thoughts and biases and prejudices as they struggle and struggle until FINALLY some small level of comprehension has been reached. That storyline alone could easily fill up a whole hour of tv time, or more, and spare us of abominations like ''will Geordi get a date this episode?''.
 
sindatur said:
Yea, you can only take "realism" just so far and have it still be Trek. Trek without a habitable Planet around every star and without Humanoid Aliens to use for Social Commentary and Metaphors isn't Trek.

Now sure, you could bring in some really "alien" aliens, but, if you can't communicate with them (It's completely unrealistic for you to be able to instantly communicate with a race you've only just met), or properly interact with them, there isn't much point in calling it Trek.

remember this phrase?:

''To explore STRANGE new worlds,
to seek out NEW LIFE and new civilizations...

I didn't know they meant at the time was not NEW life, but rather life that was sorta similar to ours apart from a few quirks or so...
In fact, I think it would be totally fascinating that a crew would meet a species and be completely incapable of communicating with said speciesm exploring their frustration and thoughts and biases and prejudices as they struggle and struggle until FINALLY some small level of comprehension has been reached. That storyline alone could easily fill up a whole hour of tv time, or more, and spare us of abominations like ''will Geordi get a date this episode?''.
I believe that episode was called "Devil In the Dark".
 
I believe that episode was called "Devil In the Dark".

Obviously...So because that happened with one race over 40 years ago, Star Trek got a free pass that it never again needed to explore this dilemna with the dozens of alien races introduced in the hundreds of television episodes afterward?
Since a real discussion is clearly not forthcoming and the nitpicking has grown quite tiresome, I think I'm done with this thread, sadly...
 
I believe that episode was called "Devil In the Dark".

Obviously...So because that happened with one race over 40 years ago, Star Trek got a free pass that it never again needed to explore this dilemna with the dozens of alien races introduced in the hundreds of television episodes afterward?
Since a real discussion is clearly not forthcoming and the nitpicking has grown quite tiresome, I think I'm done with this thread, sadly...
I don't recall saying that. It's an interesting theme, but not one that can be explored in every episode. Being a bigger fan of TOS than the other shows, it was the first episode that came to mind. I'm sure it was used in more than one episode to varying degrees. Its a pretty standard drama trope.

I've also a feeling that in an HBO show exploring the characters, their lives and how they interact would also be heavily featured. Only with more blood, swearing and the occasional T&A.
 
sindatur said:
Yea, you can only take "realism" just so far and have it still be Trek. Trek without a habitable Planet around every star and without Humanoid Aliens to use for Social Commentary and Metaphors isn't Trek.

Now sure, you could bring in some really "alien" aliens, but, if you can't communicate with them (It's completely unrealistic for you to be able to instantly communicate with a race you've only just met), or properly interact with them, there isn't much point in calling it Trek.

remember this phrase?:

''To explore STRANGE new worlds,
to seek out NEW LIFE and new civilizations...

I didn't know they meant at the time was not NEW life, but rather life that was sorta similar to ours apart from a few quirks or so...
In fact, I think it would be totally fascinating that a crew would meet a brand new apparently intelligent, non-humanoid alien species and be completely incapable of communicating with said species, exploring their frustration and thoughts and biases and prejudices as they struggle and struggle until FINALLY some small level of comprehension has been reached. That storyline alone could easily fill up a whole hour of tv time, or more, and spare us of abominations like ''will Geordi get a date this episode?''.
Absolutely. I wouldn't mind a few episodes a season like that (And even show the growing understanding and development of relationship with the race), but, that's only going to get you so many episodes, or you swing too far in the opposite direction. And as many have pointed out, the "Acclaimed Cable Writing" is character developing heavy.
 
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