HBO orders Joss Whedon ‘The Nevers’ to series

[Awesome Possum]

The show is actually about 8 different people connecting to each other and gaining abilities and strength based on this connection. The central message being that being to understand, feel empathy for each and love (not sex, love) each other, despite our differences, is our greatest ability as humans. The sex is just shown as one of the many ways to express love for one another. Focusing on the sex is missing the point of the show by miles.

But what do I know, I just watched the show. I didn't read a review and invent an elaborate fantasy about the sex scenes.

 

[kirk55555]

The show is actually about 8 different people connecting to each other and gaining abilities and strength based on this connection. The central message being that being to understand, feel empathy for each and love (not sex, love) each other, despite our differences, is our greatest ability as humans. The sex is just shown as one of the many ways to express love for one another. Focusing on the sex is missing the point of the show by miles.

A show with more then a small amount of sex is either a porn or using it to bring in viewers. No story actually needs explicit sex scenes.

But what do I know, I just watched the show. I didn't read a review and invent an elaborate fantasy about the sex scenes.

That is one of the most screwed up things someone on this site has said about me (and posters in the past have told me to go die so that's saying something). I sure as fuck haven't "fantasized" about anything related to that fucked up show. Its not something I do in general, and definitely not about that. But since you are apparently the only person on Earth who has seen Sense8 and every reviewer is lying, I'm obviously talking to a brick wall.

 

[Awesome Possum]

A show with more then a small amount of sex is either a porn or using it to bring in viewers. No story actually needs explicit sex scenes.

We'll just add porn to the list of things you don't comprehend.

The show is far from porn, you'd understand that if you'd watched it. But here we are, arguing over something you don't know about. It seems to happen a lot.

I'm obviously talking to a brick wall.

The feeling is mutual.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

A show with more then a small amount of sex is either a porn or using it to bring in viewers. No story actually needs explicit sex scenes.

So, that's a definite 'no', then.

That is one of the most screwed up things someone on this site has said about me (and posters in the past have told me to go die so that's saying something). I sure as fuck haven't "fantasized" about anything related to that fucked up show. Its not something I do in general, and definitely not about that.

Well, you called it 'creepy sex' before, so you must have had some images go through your mind.

But since you are apparently the only person on Earth who has seen Sense8 and every reviewer is lying, I'm obviously talking to a brick wall.

You're full of irony this weekend.

 

[kirk55555]

Well, you called it 'creepy sex' before, so you must have had some images go through your mind.

I'm just going based on what reviews/commenters said. I don't have any reference to imagine anything outside of trying to interpret what people write about, and I try to stick to reviews that don't go into super detail, the few specific examples I have are from things giving specific examples from the show. Honestly, any significant amount of sex scenes in something is enough to qualify the show as a "creepy sex show" anyway.

 

[Spot261]

I'm just going based on what reviews/commenters said. I don't have any reference to imagine anything outside of trying to interpret what people write about, and I try to stick to reviews that don't go into super detail, the few specific examples I have are from things giving specific examples from the show. Honestly, any significant amount of sex scenes in something is enough to qualify the show as a "creepy sex show" anyway.

Define "creepy"

 

[Kai "the spy"]

I'm just going based on what reviews/commenters said. I don't have any reference to imagine anything outside of trying to interpret what people write about, and I try to stick to reviews that don't go into super detail, the few specific examples I have are from things giving specific examples from the show. Honestly, any significant amount of sex scenes in something is enough to qualify the show as a "creepy sex show" anyway.

Let me get this straight. You're not conjuring up fantasies about what the show might depict, but you're basing your judgement only on vague descriptions in some reviews?

Also, define 'significant amount'. Because I feel kind of inspired to re-watch the show to count the numbers of sex scenes.

 

[kirk55555]

Define "creepy"

Any sex shown explicitly on screen. If you can see the people's naughty bits, its creepy. Now, Sense8 by a lot of accounts goes particularly extreme, but my baseline for a movie being creepy is if I can see any nudity, and a creepy sex scene is any one done outside of a PG-13 style I guess.

Let me get this straight. You're not conjuring up fantasies about what the show might depict, but you're basing your judgement only on vague descriptions in some reviews?

Several comments were pretty specific, and I mentioned one before.

Also, define 'significant amount'. Because I feel kind of inspired to re-watch the show to count the numbers of sex scenes.

Several reviews mentioned sex stuff being done to the point it actually becomes tedious, and I saw that from at least one pretty positive review of the show, not just ones that didn't like it.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I hate to break this to you, but you exist because your parents had sex. You didn't come out of the cabbage patch or get dropped off by a stork. It's as creepy as breathing.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Any sex shown explicitly on screen. If you can see the people's naughty bits, its creepy. Now, Sense8 by a lot of accounts goes particularly extreme, but my baseline for a movie being creepy is if I can see any nudity, and a creepy sex scene is any one done outside of a PG-13 style I guess.

The more you go on, the lower the bar seems to be. From "explicite sex" over "any nudity" to "outside of a PG-13 style". The problem is definitely with you.

Several comments were pretty specific, and I mentioned one before.

And yet, you try to stick with reviews that go into detail. You're giving off mixed signals.

Several reviews mentioned sex stuff being done to the point it actually becomes tedious, and I saw that from at least one pretty positive review of the show, not just ones that didn't like it.

You use the phrase "sex stuff" quite frequently. Which gives the impression that you don't really know what you're talking about. An impression, I might add, that is supported by pretty much everything you say. It's like Kevin going through Buzz's Playboy mags in Home Alone. "No clothes on anybody. Sickening."

But to the point, you're still going by what others have said instead of giving your own judgement of how many sex scenes constitute a 'significant amount'. Although, judging by what else you say, it feels like the answer is 1.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Yeah, because if there is one way most people would described Seasame Street, its as a "scripted drama" . But, before someone decides to go full pedant, I guess I'll start saying "adult scripted drama" so that there is no "confusion".

Don't listen to these debaucherous ruffians. I'm here for you, Kirk. Here are some wholesome HBO dramas without sex or nudity that should appeal to you. And to stay faithful to your preferred method of review, I'm doing these descriptions all sight unseen on the shows in question.

— Big Love -
A play on words off of "Big Glove", this is the story of Joseph Love, a 7-foot tall Mormon baseball player whose dreams of making it to the big leagues come true, but who has to balance his complex poly-game style of playing the field and moving between different teams with caring for his kids and being in the public eye.

— Oz -
Dealing with the aftermath of Dorothy's visit to the magical land that gives the show its name, Oz deals with conflicts between various gangs like the Lullaby League and Lollipop Guild, the latter of which are known for their superior sucking abilities, and horse race wars between Horses of Different Colors, or more likely mules of a different color carrying things along with their asses.

— Hung -
The story of a private dick hired by lonely lawyers to help them bone up on (and in) their jury pools, sometimes using back door methods.

— Tell Me You Love Me -
A family drama about people who can't sleep without getting some bedtime tale, kneeling to orally pray by saying "Oh God! Oh God! Oh God!", and telling their partners they love them.

— Boardwalk Empire -
The travels and travails of Nucky the Clown, as he vies with rival carnival barkers for control of the lucrative Atlantic City boardwalk cotton candy, popcorn, and balloon empire.

— The Sopranos -
Chronicles the cutthroat world of a family of soprano opera singers in the Bada-Sing Opera Club as they get counseling for their stressful jobs, kill rats, and avoid being taken out by ruthless understudy agents trying to help their clients take over the family business. The show ends with the family putting on a rock opera featuring Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'" and Metallica's "Fade to Black" and a solemn vow that the show isn't over until the fat lady si...

I hope this helps. If not, for serial, The Newsroom and In Treatment are scripted dramas on HBO that have no nudity, but I'm sure there are a million other arbitrary and irrational things you'll hate about them, like all the smart people talking and stuff.

When it comes to the "disturbing" bar, mine isn't low, yours is just way too high.

You think mothers breastfeeding their babies in public is disturbing. It's definitely you that's got the weird problem.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

A show with more then a small amount of sex is either a porn or using it to bring in viewers. No story actually needs explicit sex scenes.

Do they NEED explicit sex scenes? Probably not. Is it an inherent negative? Not at all. Something making you personally uncomfortable doesn't make it bad. Sure, HBO is aware that having more nudity and violence makes watching them seem rebellious to some of their viewers. But again, so what? Not everybody has to be as sex negative as you. People have sex every day, just because we've been trained to see it as something taboo and embarrassing doesn't mean it has no place in art.

Would you walk into an art museum, see a naked sculpture, and run out saying "I didn't know this museum was a porn peddler!!!" What art value does sex have on TV, besides titillating the viewers? You learn a lot about a character by showing how they act when they're vulnerable and you learn a lot about the nature of two characters' relationships by showing how they approach making love with each other.

You're welcome not to like it, but you're not applying some universal standard of what is okay and what's not, you're applying your personal preferences and nothing else.

 

[YLu]

Why do I find myself reminded of the saying about how all criticism is autobiography?

 

[kirk55555]

Don't listen to these debaucherous ruffians. I'm here for you, Kirk. Here are some wholesome HBO dramas without sex or nudity that should appeal to you. And to stay faithful to your preferred method of review, I'm doing these descriptions all sight unseen on the shows in question.

Yeah, because I totally just saw a name (Sense8) and made random things up based on its name, as opposed to reading wikipedia for the premise and way too many reviews for specific things. Its amazing how I managed to completely guess very specific scenes, all based on a nonsense name

The more you go on, the lower the bar seems to be. From "explicite sex" over "any nudity" to "outside of a PG-13 style". The problem is definitely with you.

No, I'd say people that want porn without the payoff are the odd ones. I don't look at porn, but if I wanted sex or nudity I'd look at that, not a fake version.

You use the phrase "sex stuff" quite frequently. Which gives the impression that you don't really know what you're talking about. An impression, I might add, that is supported by pretty much everything you say. It's like Kevin going through Buzz's Playboy mags in Home Alone. "No clothes on anybody. Sickening."

But to the point, you're still going by what others have said instead of giving your own judgement of how many sex scenes constitute a 'significant amount'. Although, judging by what else you say, it feels like the answer is 1.

On a personal level, when it comes to things I watch, a bare butt is more nudity then I care for and more then a fade to black to represent a sex scene is crossing over what I find acceptable. I've seen a lot of things that do more then that, but its not what I'd prefer to see. But, numerous reviews saying that Sense8 has so many sex things that it actually gets tedious puts it far beyond any of that stuff. Plus, like I said, I don't accept sex/nudity as being necessary in anything except porn and maybe the rare documentary depending on its topic.

Do they NEED explicit sex scenes? Probably not. Is it an inherent negative? Not at all. Something making you personally uncomfortable doesn't make it bad. Sure, HBO is aware that having more nudity and violence makes watching them seem rebellious to some of their viewers. But again, so what? Not everybody has to be as sex negative as you. People have sex every day, just because we've been trained to see it as something taboo and embarrassing doesn't mean it has no place in art.

It is inherently negative. HBO could spend money to put out making decent stuff if they cut out the edgy teenager shit. Instead they're just smut peddlers that happen to hire artsy writers/producers who want to make porn but still sell it outside of sex shops/the internet. HBO would just hire actual pornstars to screw on camera if they didn't want people to pretend like they're a network and not just a half-assed porn distributor (they make more money if they don't go full porn, presumably).

Would you walk into an art museum, see a naked sculpture, and run out saying "I didn't know this museum was a porn peddler!!!" What art value does sex have on TV, besides titillating the viewers? You learn a lot about a character by showing how they act when they're vulnerable and you learn a lot about the nature of two characters' relationships by showing how they approach making love with each other.

You learn absolutely nothing from sex, much less fake sex. Well, I guess you "learn" what an actor's body double's naughty bits look like, but nothing much besides that. Its just done to appeal to people who aren't able to use Google. As for statues, its not like I've been anywhere near a museum that has nude statues, and wouldn't go into one because I find art stuff boring anyway.

You're welcome not to like it, but you're not applying some universal standard of what is okay and what's not, you're applying your personal preferences and nothing else.

That was the whole point of my first post, that I found it unfortunate that Joss Whedon is making a show on a porn network, because I'd be interested in his show if he was making a real show and not fake porn.

 

[EnderAKH]

It's ok for people to be incredibly sexually repressed. You will never break someone out of that mindset.

Besides, everyone knows Cinemax is the porn network.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Yeah, because I totally just saw a name (Sense8) and made random things up based on its name, as opposed to reading wikipedia for the premise and way too many reviews for specific things. Its amazing how I managed to completely guess very specific scenes, all based on a nonsense name

Which contradicts what I said, how?

"And to stay faithful to your preferred method of review, I'm doing these descriptions all sight unseen on the shows in question."

On a personal level, when it comes to things I watch, a bare butt is more nudity then I care for and more then a fade to black to represent a sex scene is crossing over what I find acceptable. I've seen a lot of things that do more then that, but its not what I'd prefer to see.

This kind of extreme aversion to any hint of sexuality or nudity goes beyond normal though. You really need to get some therapy to explore why you're so afraid of even normal, healthy, and mundane depictions of human sexuality and the human body.

Its just done to appeal to people who aren't able to use Google.

No, they're people who want the full range of normal human interaction and relationships in the TV and films they watch. Again, you are the abnormal one here, not everyone else. And that's fine if you want to do your thing, but you constantly go around trying to portray yourself as the norm and everyone else as some kind of bizarre sex perverts for being fine with normal depictions of sex and nudity in the shows they watch, and that's not okay. Keep your weird hangups to yourself and stop projecting your issues onto everyone else.

Also, do you have any idea how fucked up it is that the only options you think should be left open to people are no depictions of nudity/sex in TV and film or watching porn? You don't think people should have some middle ground between those extremes?

As for statues, its not like I've been anywhere near a museum that has nude statues, and wouldn't go into one because I find art stuff boring anyway.

No one will ever accuse you of being a Renaissance Man. I would be embarrassed to admit something like that.

That was the whole point of my first post, that I found it unfortunate that Joss Whedon is making a show on a porn network, because I'd be interested in his show if he was making a real show and not fake porn.

You know there are parental content filters that will edit out all the sex, nudity, and cursing from a show, and remote controls to skip scenes. The show will be missing context, but you don't strike me as being a big context guy anyway.

Here, watch this edited for TV version of The Sopranos: to get an idea:

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[Kai "the spy"]

I'm trying to think of anything to say that hasn't already been said, and this is what I came up with:

By @kirk55555 's standards, The Simpsons is porn.

 

[kirk55555]

This kind of extreme aversion to any hint of sexuality or nudity goes beyond normal though. You really need to get some therapy to explore why you're so afraid of even normal, healthy, and mundane depictions of human sexuality and the human body.

Yeah, one thing I don't need is therapy. I might have phrased things wrong and came off slightly more extreme in my dislike of nudity/sex stuff then I actually am. Just because I don't like certain things doesn't mean I don't put up with them to an extent. I watch horror movies even though any R-rated ones tend to have nudity, and I did watch about half of Westworld's first season even though they couldn't go more then a few minutes without shoving nudity at the viewer. I didn't even fastforward through Westworld's stuff (outside of a few sex scenes) because they kept putting important things in some of the nudity scenes (those maintenance scenes were really frustrating because of that).

No, they're people who want the full range of normal human interaction and relationships in the TV and films they watch.

God forbid a TV show isn't 100% like real life. I suppose by that logic you want shows to show every second of a character's day, from waking up to eating, using the restroom, etc, like its the movie The Truman Show done as an actual show.

Also, do you have any idea how fucked up it is that the only options you think should be left open to people are no depictions of nudity/sex in TV and film or watching porn? You don't think people should have some middle ground between those extremes?

I don't care about what people make or watch. People should be allowed to watch porn if they want. I just wish certain companies wouldn't waste good premises and money on borderline porn. Westworld is a good premise, cut out the weird sex stuff (and hire writers who can write a story that isn't paced so badly) and it could have been interesting. Joss Whedon's show sounds interesting, if it was done by a real network and wasn't just another way for HBO to get horny idiots to pay for their channel.

No one will ever accuse you of being a Renaissance Man. I would be embarrassed to admit something like that.

No one should be embarrassed for not wanting to see statues or art. I like a lot of historical things and there are many museums/types of museums that I would love to see. Art museums are not one of them. Nothing wrong with finding art uninteresting.

You know there are parental content filters that will edit out all the sex, nudity, and cursing from a show, and remote controls to skip scenes. The show will be missing context, but you don't strike me as being a big context guy anyway.

Any show that you can't understand without the sex is literally a porn. SyFy showed an edited version of that Spartacus show for awhile, and it made perfect sense. It was a shitty copy of 300 (which itself is a terrible movie), but that had nothing to do with the content editing and the episode or two I saw of it was was completely understandable even with the sex/nudity stuff cut out. Westworld would also have made perfect sense. Its not like you just cut out every scene with nudity, you edit around it. Stations have been doing that forever, and in a worst case scenario you put a blur filter on parts of a screen for a few seconds.

Its not all that difficult to edit that stuff out of most shows, because its not actually important to the story being told.

I'm trying to think of anything to say that hasn't already been said, and this is what I came up with:

By @kirk55555 's standards, The Simpsons is porn.

Nope. Outside of showing barts junk for no reason in the movie (which was creepy, but in a different way then standard nudity obviously) The Simpsons at worst maybe showed Homer's butt a few times. That's nudity, but not sexual.

 

[Campe]

So, Joss Whedon's got a new show coming out, huh?

 

[Kemaiku]

So, Joss Whedon's got a new show coming out, huh?

Unfortunately, someone has let the man into a workplace full of women again.