Hated it

[Set Harth]

It's a reboot. Reboots can take many forms, in this case its a "sidequel".

Sequels are not reboots. In a reboot you don't have a veteran of the previous films hanging around.

Nope. Nothing seen in 'Space Seed' like that.

Thus, STID's portrayal of the reaction of Kirk & Co. to Khan's name is objectively no more wrong than Space Seed's handling of the equivalent scene, since they are entirely consistent. As such, damning one product but not the other on this point fails to make sense and suggests a preexisting bias against STID.

With STID, we aren't even told how Botany Bay, or his - Khan's - travel from the 20th(?) century, or his supposed reign during the 20th century, tied into the story.

We are told ( through the dialogue of Khan and Marcus ) how Khan being from the 20th century ties into the story, and the name of his ship is irrelevant to the story of STID.

 

[eyeresist]

It's a reboot. Reboots can take many forms, in this case its a "sidequel".

Sequels are not reboots. In a reboot you don't have a veteran of the previous films hanging around.

Chuck Heston in Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes.
Marilyn Burns in the Texas Chainsaw remake.

These are the two that immediately occurred to me, but I'm sure there are many more. Nimoy was there for the same reason as the above-named, plus as a sop to continuity nuts.

 

[Set Harth]

Chuck Heston in Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes.
Marilyn Burns in the Texas Chainsaw remake.

These are the two that immediately occurred to me, but I'm sure there are many more.

Then you didn't understand my meaning. Reboots don't involve the continuing adventures of the same character who appeared in the previous films. Burton's Planet of the Apes film is completely separate from the original series of films. They are not part of the same continuity. That's the difference between an actual reboot and a sequel which was dubbed a reboot by fandom. STXI is not a remake.

Nimoy was there for the same reason as the above-named

The situations are entirely different. Nimoy's character in the Abramsverse is the same person who lived through all those TOS episodes, Unification, and the first six Trek films.

plus as a sop to continuity nuts.

According to People on the Internet who always insist they know the reasons why other people did things yet have no actual proof indicating anything of the sort.

 

[eyeresist]

^ I guess all the above shows that Abrams' strategy worked.

 

[Set Harth]

What strategy? It appears to be nothing more than a figment of your imagination.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's a reboot. Reboots can take many forms, in this case its a "sidequel".

Sequels are not reboots. In a reboot you don't have a veteran of the previous films hanging around.

Some are some aren't. Anytime you do a follow film its a sequel. The original Planets of the Apes films were sequels, prequels and reboots all at the same time.

If the reboot is built around the concept of alternate realities you can.

 

[Set Harth]

Anytime you do a follow film its a sequel.

If it's in the same continuity as the previous film. If not, it's not a sequel.

The original Planets of the Apes films were sequels, prequels and reboots all at the same time.

They weren't reboots. They were all in the same continuity.

 

[BillJ]

What they did achieved the same thing as a reboot. It freed them to do what they wanted to do with the characters and universe.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Anytime you do a follow film its a sequel.

If it's in the same continuity as the previous film. If not, it's not a sequel.

Sure it it is. A sequel is just the next film.

The original Planets of the Apes films were sequels, prequels and reboots all at the same time.

They weren't reboots. They were all in the same continuity.

Sort of. You can reboot with in continuity.

 

[UFO]

What they did achieved the same thing as a reboot. It freed them to do what they wanted to do with the characters and universe.

True. However you can kill someone with a knife or a gun. But that doesn't mean a knife is a gun.

 

[Set Harth]

Sure it it is. A sequel is just the next film.

No. Batman Begins is not a sequel to Batman and Robin. Man of Steel is not a sequel to Superman Returns. By definition a sequel is in the same continuity as the prior film.

Sort of.

In what way were they not in the same continuity?

You can reboot with in continuity.

Then it's not really a reboot. A reboot would act as if the prior continuity didn't happen at all.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Sure it it is. A sequel is just the next film.

No. Batman Begins is not a sequel to Batman and Robin. Man of Steel is not a sequel to Superman Returns. By definition a sequel is in the same continuity as the prior film.

No, it just has to involve the same characters or setting. The wiki on sequels, lists reboot as a type of sequel.

Sort of.

In what way were they not in the same continuity?

Things don't seem to line up quite right in the sequels. ( all of which are prequels to the first two films)

You can reboot with in continuity.

Then it's not really a reboot. A reboot would act as if the prior continuity didn't happen at all.

Most reboots contain elements from the continuity of the previous iteration. Many comicbook reboots include entire storylines from previous continuities. As I mentioned most of DC Comics reboots have been the result of in continuity "crises". Comics pretty much invented the reboot.

 

[UFO]

Most reboots contain elements from the continuity of the previous iteration. Many comicbook reboots include entire storylines from previous continuities. As I mentioned most of DC Comics reboots have been the result of in continuity "crises". Comics pretty much invented the reboot.

Perhaps, but surely a reboot can't have exactly the same continuity as the previous material? NuTrek doesn't change anything involving the "old" continuity. Nothing zip zilch nada, despite claims from some fans to the contrary. What's more these aren't even the original characters, nor are they intended to be. They're copies of them. The originals still exist! Well, at a comparable time in the prime universe anyway.

As someone not that impressed by nuTrek, I have no reason to resist calling it a reboot if it actually was one. I would have thought those who call it a reboot would happily admit its not, if challenged. But would excuse themselves on the grounds of lacking a more convenient term or some such.

 

[Franklin]

I think a sequel is supposed to be the carrying on of the story or theme of a previous story. In that light, TWOK is not a sequel to TMP, but TSFS is a sequel to TWOK, and TVH is a sequel to both TWOK and TSFS.

If it's just about using the same characters in a string of stories in the same setting with at least some continuity, then all episodes of TOS are sequels running in order from two to 79.

Prequel is a relatively new word for a story that sets up the events of a story that came after it.

 

[Set Harth]

No, it just has to involve the same characters or setting.

Wrong. By that standard Inglourious Basterds is a sequel to Saving Private Ryan, Batman Begins is a sequel to Tim Burton's Batman, and other such nonsense.

The wiki on sequels, lists reboot as a type of sequel.

It's almost as if some people assume words mean whatever they want them to mean and wikipedia pages are vandalized by some of these totally anonymous people.

Things don't seem to line up quite right in the sequels.

What things? And since when does "reboot" mean "things don't seem to line up quite right"? Is every alleged continuity error to be taken as evidence of a reboot? At what point is the intention of the filmmakers assumed to have any relevance?

Most reboots contain elements from the continuity of the previous iteration.

Just because that claim isn't true doesn't stop people from making it.

Many comicbook reboots include entire storylines from previous continuities.

The comic book realm apparently has its own definition of "reboot". It's not the same way with films. Film reboots jettison the prior continuity and start from scratch.

As someone not that impressed by nuTrek, I have no reason to resist calling it a reboot if it actually was one.

If Abrams Trek was really a reboot, there would have been no reason to maintain Khan's original 20th-century backstory which no longer matches up with historical reality.

 

[Dukhat]

Things don't seem to line up quite right in the sequels. ( all of which are prequels to the first two films)

The inconsistencies in the POTA films had more to do with things being retconned in order to fit the story they were trying to tell, rather than each film being in a different continuity. Set Harth is correct that the five films were meant to take place in the same "universe." While it's true that some things in those movies don't make sense based on what we saw in the first film, it's not because it was a reboot.

 

[Smellmet]

It is a sequel and a prequel which has had the effect of rebooting the franchise. It really is that simple.

 

[BigJake]

I may be misreading your statement, but it's my recollection that nearly all of Khan's back story in 'Space Seed' (what little there was of it) was delivered via exposition.

Does the verbal duel with Kirk and Spock count as exposition? "We offered the world order!"

While it's not the "info dump" method to which Joel Kirk refers, background information introduced in dialogue is still, by definition, exposition. Nearly everything we came to know in 'Space Seed' about Khan's background was told, not shown.

It can be dual-purpose, I think. The dry details of Khan's background were being told in that scene, but the important parts? His arrogance, his sense of entitlement, superiority and righteousness that explained that background and his subsequent actions in the episode... that was being shown.

 

[Belz...]

No, it just has to involve the same characters or setting.

Wrong. By that standard Inglourious Basterds is a sequel to Saving Private Ryan, Batman Begins is a sequel to Tim Burton's Batman, and other such nonsense.

Of course not. Those are not in the same setting.

Sequels, prequels and reboots are not mutually-exclusive.

 

[Smellmet]

Exactly - Rise of the Planet of the Apes is a prequel and a reboot. Dawn of the Planet of the Apes is a sequel. Batman Begins is just a straight reboot. The Phantom Menace and it's sequels are all prequels, and so on. You could also argue that X-Man Days of Future Past is a sequel, prequel and reboot all at the same time.